Workbench Replacements

[G-linx]

Wayfarer runs well on MorphOS, but if this OS continues to run on old MACs it will go more and more into the niche, a move to x86 could be a major breakthrough

Like aros using AxRuntime? (moving aros to x64 that is) 

Don't get me wrong, aros 32bit is my goto amiga os. But with lots of the drivers in need of an update, its probably an impossible task. It wont be to long before we have to re-cap the graphic cards!

[AMIGASYSTEM]

As I've always said I like native systems, AxRuntime is like a native system.

I don't like host systems, if I have to use an application through a host system, I might as well use an application directly with the host system, you do it faster and you do it better.

[G-linx]

I don't like host systems, if I have to use an application through a host system, I might as well use an application directly with the host system, you do it faster and you do it better.

I know what you mean, but its a good place to start unless the user prefers a vm. It just works.
I'm pretty hyped about AxRuntime at the moment, it took me a long time to realize just what it means for the future.

[miker1264]

I don't like host systems, if I have to use an application through a host system, I might as well use an application directly with the host system, you do it faster and you do it better.

I know what you mean, but its a good place to start unless the user prefers a vm. It just works.
I'm pretty hyped about AxRuntime at the moment, it took me a long time to realize just what it means for the future.

I'm still not sure what the capabilities or use cases are for AxRuntime. What can it do that an x86 or x86-64 system can't ?

I've read the documentation but some type of demo or explanation would be helpful.

Until recently I have been using AROS Hosted or Native inside VM's like VirtualBox or VMWare. But I must say it's more satisfying using real software on real hardware. AROS One x86 Native is installed on my Morex 557 mini PC. It's great.

[magorium]

@Miker:

VM:
Feels like native, especially when you have seamles mode activated (mileage may vary based on your host system and used VM software).

For instance there are special drivers for VMWare that offer better hardware support in AROS.

I also consider the isolated nature of a VM a pro (not for development but more for experimenting).

Hosted:
That will run AROS natively but using the Host API to 'emulate' AROS. This is my preferred way for development as it allows you to use both AROS and host applications at the same time. So for instance I can use my preferred Linux code editor, gimp graphics editor etc and directly access the AROS (dedicated) directories.

imho the con there is that there is not actually a seamless integration. AROS runs in a single separated process (the whole AROS operating system) and it can be/work confusing at times.

AXRuntime:
Runs AROS applications natively on the hosted platform. It is using direct host calls to 'emulate' the AROS look and feel. This allows for seamless integration (requires more work) and allows you to mix host applications and AROS applications as they both run (directly) on the same host.

The pro there is that you can use the AROS/Amiga API to create applications that runs natively on Linux (with a bit of help from some libraries and some basic setup files being present). The ideal situation would be for a special window manager that is targeted towards AROS/Amiga style of operation effectively being able to replace whatever desktop.

Seamless does mean (at times) the same confusion as hosted but as an additional Pro you can develop applications using AROS/Amiga API on your host which also means that you could use AX to start developing drivers for your particular hardware using already existing (host) libraries (it becomes a hybrid AROS/Linux executable). As a second step you could then start re-writing the calls to the existing hardware API to talk to the hardware directly (and thus be able to write an actual native AROS driver for the hardware).

So in case AROS API does not offer enough for your application to be able to work (too difficult, coder being lazy or short with time) then you are able to fall back to using Linux API calls as an easy replacement (you could then always decide to later rewrite the Linux specific API to something more AROS native and thus expand AROS itself). This is imho the best idea ever for easy improvements for/in AROS' codebase although afaik it has not really been put to practice yet)

add: I forgot to mention another pro of AXRT: debugging. You can use the host' debugging tools.

Native:
The pro there is to have a real separate AROS system. It is the closest to running AROS as if you were to run the workbench on an actual Amiga (but with the additional horsepower if you are lucky enough to have compatible hardware). The con there is that you do need to have hardware  that is supported by AROS drivers (and that can be difficult to come by).


I'm sure I forgot to mention a lot of other things that are either pro or con but basically I consider the above to be the gist of it.

[cdimauro]

As I've always said I like native systems, AxRuntime is like a native system.

It's not. It's still a host system which is capable of executing AROS executables.

It's something more like WINE.

I don't like host systems, if I have to use an application through a host system, I might as well use an application directly with the host system, you do it faster and you do it better.

I agree, but here it's different. Normally we're missing the ability to run AROS applications, but AxRuntime allows it in a relatively transparent way.

I'm still not sure what the capabilities or use cases are for AxRuntime. What can it do that an x86 or x86-64 system can't ?

I've read the documentation but some type of demo or explanation would be helpful.

See above. Plus AxRuntime, having Linux as base the kernel, avoids all the burden about hardware compatibility.

Plus, each AROS process is completely independent, so it cannot crash the system neither other applications. It's sort of "safe" SMP/AMP for AROS applications.

Until recently I have been using AROS Hosted or Native inside VM's like VirtualBox or VMWare. But I must say it's more satisfying using real software on real hardware. AROS One x86 Native is installed on my Morex 557 mini PC. It's great.

Native experience is awesome, but if the Linux kernel used by AxRuntime could be reduced to the minimum then it could give a good experience to AROS users (once a good Workbench replacement is available, of course).

[miker1264]

The Raspberry Pi 3A+ arrived. It's so small. 

Just waiting a few days for the Pi Storm32 Lite from Amikit.

Then let the configuring and OS testing begin with an initial emphasis on workbench replacements such as Magellan and Scalos and although not a workbench replacement some testing of 68k versions of FileMaster file manager.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Why do you like File master so much ?

File Master (all versions) I used it many years ago, I also used DirWork, but without a doubt the best Filemanager is Dopus4, simple configurability and great functionality.

[miker1264]

Why do you like File master so much ?

File Master (all versions) I used it many years ago, I also used DirWork, but without a doubt the best Filemanager is Dopus4, simple configurability and great functionality.

Dopus4 is nice if you know how to configure it correctly.

FileMaster has great potential. I have collected all of the sources for all the different versions intending to make a combined source version for AROS x86 & x86-64 ABIv11.

Currently FileMaster runs on AROS x86 & 68k. My version also runs on x86-64.

https://ae.amigalife.org/index.php?topic=845.msg9510#msg9510

[AMIGASYSTEM]

An alternative to Dopus4 is fine, we all have our own tastes, Filemaster is easier to use, but more complicated to set up like Dopus4.

That thread of my tests to the many FileManagers was very successful, many Amiga users did not know them, I attach that old SlideShow of mine here in direct view

[cdimauro]

Wow. I had completely forgot CLIMate: the first one which I've used.
Nice slideshow, thanks!

[pixie]

An alternative to Dopus4 is fine, we all have our own tastes, Filemaster is easier to use, but more complicated to set up like Dopus4.

That thread of my tests to the many FileManagers was very successful, many Amiga users did not know them, I attach that old SlideShow of mine here in direct view

Damn, that's an all ecosystem! Nice work.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

It was not easy to find all the software, to complete I reviewed all my CDs and Floppies I have in the garage.

I also did the same SlideShow for "Music Programs" and "Copiers," again lots of screenshots

[OlafS3]

The Raspberry Pi 3A+ arrived. It's so small. 

Just waiting a few days for the Pi Storm32 Lite from Amikit.

Then let the configuring and OS testing begin with an initial emphasis on workbench replacements such as Magellan and Scalos and although not a workbench replacement some testing of 68k versions of FileMaster file manager.

If you have questions about Magellan or Scalos in future then ask here. I have plenty of experience with magellan and currently work on a distribution based on Scalos

[miker1264]

The Raspberry Pi 3A+ arrived. It's so small. 

Just waiting a few days for the Pi Storm32 Lite from Amikit.

Then let the configuring and OS testing begin with an initial emphasis on workbench replacements such as Magellan and Scalos and although not a workbench replacement some testing of 68k versions of FileMaster file manager.

If you have questions about Magellan or Scalos in future then ask here. I have plenty of experience with magellan and currently work on a distribution based on Scalos

Thanks. That's good to know. 

Scalos and Magellan can be difficult to understand as for configuration.