Workbench Replacements

[pixie]

The problem with MUI & Zune is the same general problem of all BOOPSI-based GUI applications: it's one of the worse OOP implementation. BOOPSI really sucks at simulating OOP using C-like languages AND it's absolutely inefficient (both memory and CPU/performance-wise).

Unfortunately it's very spread on the Amiga land, because it's part of the o.s..

On the other hand non-BOOPSI (AKA "classic") is much easier (that's what I've used on my tools, at the time) but extremely limited.

Have you have ever tried Feelin?

[cdimauro]

The problem with MUI & Zune is the same general problem of all BOOPSI-based GUI applications: it's one of the worse OOP implementation. BOOPSI really sucks at simulating OOP using C-like languages AND it's absolutely inefficient (both memory and CPU/performance-wise).

Unfortunately it's very spread on the Amiga land, because it's part of the o.s..

On the other hand non-BOOPSI (AKA "classic") is much easier (that's what I've used on my tools, at the time) but extremely limited.

Have you have ever tried Feelin?

No, but at first sight it looks tags-based, like BOOPSI.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

How did you get gcc to work in a shell in Amiga OS 3.9?

on Aminet I searched and downloaded everything about the "C" language and installed it.

Initially I was getting errors on assignments, then thanks to my Amiga experience by monitoring with Snoopdos I was able to get GCC working and I think C++ works too (not tested)
 
I can't tell you how correct the installation was and if everything works fine, but some simple source I managed to compile.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Speaking of "Replacements" a new version of the su Icon.library MultiOS has been made by PeterK.

 The package you can find on Aminet includes Icon.libraries for various OS3, special versions for OS3 RTG, AROS 68k and a specific one for Dopus5 Magellan.

The package also includes many interesting softwaredeveloped by Peterk and third parties (Bonus)

I attach a review by PeterK himself:

On DOpus5 framed icons were displayed with a width too large for the gray background (rounded to words).

In rare circumstances the inner drawer data was being used for deficons and sometimes even set as defaults.
 This was an attempt to overwrite my library code.

 Added two experimental WBStartup commands under bonus.

An attempt to avoid icon pen allocation in the WBStartup drawer at system startup. The two commands
 ColorIconsOff and ColorIconsOn should be started as the first and last program in the WBStartup drawer.

 Improved handling of ApolloOS on Aros by correctly detecting the Aros port of cybergraphics.library and using FastMem for icons.
 Using FastMem for icons by default.

 Reduced the size of icon.library by removing some elements.

[miker1264]

Library replacements for AROS and Amiga count too!

[AMIGASYSTEM]

This is a fundamental Library also for AROS 68k, and especially free to use on Free Distributions.

miker, if you need, I have prepared an AfA One version Lite with working GCC, PortabLe also works, for converting ".e" sources to ".cpp" sources, PortabLe also works well on AROS x86

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Miker, as you requested, I sent you in PM "AfA One" with the GCC and PortabLe working.

As mentioned the MP, do not change some App settings of WBStartup, Startup-sequence and user-startup, otherwise something will not work as it should.

Among the settings mentioned, there is moving windows off-screen, image thumbnails, and more

Don't change WinUAE's settings either otherwise you might get errors, WinUAE is set up with 060 and the "Map ROM Emulation" which are for moving windows, and take advantage of 060 native libraries and Apps.

If you encounter problems let's discuss them on the thtread dedicated to AfA One:

https://ae.amigalife.org/index.php?topic=403.msg13769#msg13769

[miker1264]

Recently I purchased a Pi Storm32 Lite from Amikit. I also bought a Raspberry Pi 3A+ to go with it. By comparison I own a Vampire V2+ for my Amiga 500. The Pi Storm32 will be for my Amiga 1200.

But what does new Amiga hardware have to do with AROS ?

On the Pi Storm32 Lite I intend to install Caffeine OS which uses Magellan as it's workbench replacement to try it out. 

[AMIGASYSTEM]

I would say that the new hardware centers with AROS, since AROS 68k could run on it discretely, although to date the best solution for AROS 68k is WinUAE

Caffeine like CoffinOS are systems I would not recommend, they are mix systems (as well as include commercial software), already this is enough to encounter many incompatibilities and strange Guru.

[miker1264]

I would say that the new hardware centers with AROS, since AROS 68k could run on it discretely, although to date the best solution for AROS 68k is WinUAE

Caffeine like CoffinOS are systems I would not recommend, they are mix systems (as well as include commercial software), already this is enough to encounter many incompatibilities and strange Guru.

The Pi 3A+ has a 1.4Ghz ARM CPU that gets about 860 MIPS in SysInfo which is astonishing! As with all new Amiga related hardware it has some small issues. It can't access Chip Ram efficiently. Maybe Pi Storm32 could remap Chip Ram to the faster DDR3 like Vampire does.

I have no problem using "mixed systems". In fact AfA OS is a mixed system in that sense. If we develop an app for AROS 68K then use it on Amiga OS3.x is it then a mixed system? On the other hand if we use Amiga OS3.x apps on AROS 68k does that mean that they won't work or that there are so many incompatibilities that it isn't worth the effort?

I disagree. The purpose of AROS 68k is not to have it run only in WinUAE but it is intended to be used on real 68k compatible hardware. But AROS 68k has difficulty running on stock Amigas without beefy accelerators. Apollo OS (Caffeine OS) runs without the hardware abstraction layer of AROS 68k which I assume makes it more stable and more responsive. What is the purpose of making AROS 68k to be binary compatible with Amiga OS3.x if are afraid to run such Amiga apps on AROS 68k. If that's the attitude then why not just run Amiga apps in UAE on AROS x86 or in WinUAE and forget about the rest.

Each combination of hardware and software has it's advantages and it's shortcomings. WinUAE is great for playing some nostalgic games like Pirates or Centurion. It's also great for partitioning and formatting and for testing. Vampire accelerators are good for a fast RTG experience with Amiga modes supported as well. Pi Storn32 will provide a super fast RTG experience, much faster than Vampire 68080 + SAGA. But to play Amiga games I would remove the Pi Storm32. Pi Storm32 uses micros sd cards which are very inexpensive. So I'd like to try Amiga OS3.9 and AfA OS and AROS 68k with Dopus Magellan or Scalos workbench replacements.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

By Mix systems I mean something else, AfA One is a "pure" OS 3.9 BB4 with the addition of AfA OS libraries (AROS For Amiga), when you try it you can verify this.

Systems like Coffin include libraries and system files that belong to various OSes and this results in incompatibilities

Mixing OS 3.1 or OS 3.2 with OS 3.9 runs into many incompatibilities, many of which have been discussed many times.

Regarding AROS 68k, no AROS 68k software can run on OS3, as you know AROS 68k executables are "ELF"

Caffeine I don't know the latest version, but it is supposed to include AROS 68k and OS3 libraries and files, this of course is a mix that I particularly dislike, because then it is no longer a true AROS 68k

[miker1264]

By Mix systems I mean something else, AfA One is a "pure" OS 3.9 BB4 with the addition of AfA OS libraries (AROS For Amiga), when you try it you can verify this.

Systems like Coffin include libraries and system files that belong to various OSes and this results in incompatibilities

Mixing OS 3.1 or OS 3.2 with OS 3.9 runs into many incompatibilities, many of which have been discussed many times.

Regarding AROS 68k, no AROS 68k software can run on OS3, as you know AROS 68k executables are "ELF"

Caffeine I don't know the latest version, but it is supposed to include AROS 68k and OS3 libraries and files, this of course is a mix that I particularly dislike, because then it is no longer a true AROS 68k

For sure mixing OS libraries and components indiscriminately could cause problems but I'm sure the talented development team at Apollo Computers has taken that into consideration and there is extensive testing for that.

Using Caffeine OS or my own version of AROS Vanilla 68k on Pi Storm32 Lite on my Amiga 1200 would help to test Magellan and Scalos on real "native" hardware. It would also come very close to fulfilling one of my lifetime goals of writing software for my Amiga! If I could compile IconClone and some of my other apps for AROS 68k and see them running on my Amiga 1200 via Pi Storm32 that would be great. I'm interested in the possibilities for future development.

Using Pi Storm32 as an Amiga accelerator has another advantage in RTG mode. No graphics driver is needed for AROS 68k. The HDMI output is generated by the Pi 3A+ so it can be displayed in 1080p on a 32" LCD TV. Having a good RTG experience is important for graphics program development. I recently bought a new mini-itx board and processor for my mini PC to run AROS x86 because the new board has Intel HD 2000 graphics chipset. In addition to the Pi Storm32 HDMI graphics I have an Indivision AGA scandoubler that will output Amiga modes through HDMI on a different LCD monitor. Next week the fun begins when the new hardware arrives! 

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Compiling IconClone or your other software for OS3 would be very nice, hopefully my AfA One will allow you to compile your software for native OS3 ! probably many Amiga users would be happy about that.

Even if you won't be able to do it on real Hardware, there is always WinUAE, which besides being more powerful than any "modern" Amiga board, is also more compatible with a real Amiga of these cards.

[miker1264]

Compiling IconClone or your other software for OS3 would be very nice, hopefully my AfA One will allow you to compile your software for native OS3 ! probably many Amiga users would be happy about that.

Even if you won't be able to do it on real Hardware, there is always WinUAE, which besides being more powerful than any "modern" Amiga board, is also more compatible with a real Amiga of these cards.

I'm perfectly willing to do some speed comparisons between Caffeine OS in WinUAE and Caffeine OS on Pi Storm32 on my Amiga 1200. In RTG mode prepare for WinUAE to get demolished. 

I also look forward to trying Amiga OS 3.2.2 but I haven't bought it yet. I bought Amiga OS 3.1.4 with ROMS and Amiga OS 4.1 FE. I don't mind supporting Amiga or AROS software development by buying products.

AROS development in general lacks motivation to attract the attention of talented programmers. Money in my opinion is a great motivator. If pre-packaged AROS products such as IcarosDesktop or AROS One were offered Pre-Installed on CF card were available for sale I would buy them for the simplicity of not having to do anything especially if the profit of such sales goes to benefit AROS bounties for future development. I bought such a CF card from Amiwell with AROS One x86 Pre-Installed. I use it on my mini PC. I must say I'm very pleased.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

I'm perfectly willing to do some speed comparisons between Caffeine OS in WinUAE and Caffeine OS on Pi Storm32 on my Amiga 1200. In RTG mode prepare for WinUAE to get demolished. 

It will be very difficult to surpass WinUAE in power and compatibility, especially the latest versions that take even more advantage of powerful PC Hardware

I don't have experience with Pi Storm32, but I have a lot of experience with WinUAE, plus it is the same "sincere" Wampire and Pi Storm32 users who have always confirmed the difference in power and compatibility compared to with WinUAE.

Anyway I am glad you can demolish WinUAE, this will probably push me to buy Pi Storm32 !