Is anyone actually testing ABIv1?

[paolone]

Interesting I personally find abiv0 to be stale and dead as a matter of fact without abiv1 you wouldn’t be getting the fixes or improvements you’re getting

Many of those problems you’re inheriting with the back port effort.

Sure it’s great deadwood is putting the effort in for the users and distro maintainers but end of the day if abov1 stops and no one tests it you’ll be able to enjoy your nice stable updateless os.

Nothing is dead when someone is still working on it.


From my personal point of view, ABIv1 is a total waste of time on x86 and a very-good-thing-to-have on x64 and M68K. But you simply can't believe people will follow you on the v1 bandwagon if there is NO software for it. And when I say no software, i mean there are no OWB, no MPlayer, no RNOpublisher, no Audio Evolution, no AmiStart, no ZuneTools, and even no Janus-UAE 1 with desktop integration. Users aren't beta-testers: users are people pretending to USE the operating system to perform several task: no software, no tasks, no motivation to install the OS.


When the split to ABIv1 decision was taken, the only needed requisite was a quick transition to ABIv1, but nobody cared about this issue. Result is, and I WARNED everybody on the AROS-DEV mailing list about this, that without this quick transition we would have ended into having a userland confined into ABIv0 forever and developers working with no testing, no feedback, no users on an ABIv1 version nobody would have cared about. Now tell me, after 10 years, if I was wrong.


Now there's very little we can do about this: just prey there always be a Deadwood willing to backport, because the only AROS considered by users is ABIv0 and, without ABIv0 being brought further, you won't have any modernized ABIv1 either: the project on x86 will just stave and die, with 1-2 developers still being active on it. I can be interested into a stable AROS64 distribution, but surely current Icaros Desktop will never get a x86 ABIv1 kernel.

[aGGreSSor]

<test on>
AROS64 doesn't load with any of the menu options in VirtualBox 6.1
</test off>

I remember two months ago it AROS64 was still loaded, but with only two work options in the menu.  Broke.

[nikos]

I do not say big deal cause that would be a complete update with more gfx drivers, network drivers and all other kind of drivers. USB 3 support, wanderer updated, improved and so much more. If I fill inn a bug report who will test it when it is hardware related? In the past I rather communicate through a forum or directly with the developer.

Well, let's see I had hardware issues with the latest Ryzen processors which is exactly why Michal and Kalamatee both have Ryzen machines(Hint I purchased them).  Also if ABIv1 has hardware issues then eventually the ABIv0 backport will have the same ones.   What developers are reading these forums lately(besides obviously deadwood)?

Terminills: I'm afraid we are going nowhere with this. There are no interest in ABI v.1 apart from the 68k version. Who are going to work on the bug reports? Kalamatee and Michael, if you buy them the hardware you have? That is for sure an option, but no garantee they can fix, do anything about it. If you like to do something real serious about this my suggestion is that you buy Kalamatee and Michael some reference hardware and get everything to work. Native GFX using 3D hardware, Sound, wi-fi and USB and you will get my and many others attention.

[terminills]

I do not say big deal cause that would be a complete update with more gfx drivers, network drivers and all other kind of drivers. USB 3 support, wanderer updated, improved and so much more. If I fill inn a bug report who will test it when it is hardware related? In the past I rather communicate through a forum or directly with the developer.

Well, let's see I had hardware issues with the latest Ryzen processors which is exactly why Michal and Kalamatee both have Ryzen machines(Hint I purchased them).  Also if ABIv1 has hardware issues then eventually the ABIv0 backport will have the same ones.   What developers are reading these forums lately(besides obviously deadwood)?

Terminills: I'm afraid we are going nowhere with this. There are no interest in ABI v.1 apart from the 68k version. Who are going to work on the bug reports? Kalamatee and Michael, if you buy them the hardware you have? That is for sure an option, but no garantee they can fix, do anything about it. If you like to do something real serious about this my suggestion is that you buy Kalamatee and Michael some reference hardware and get everything to work. Native GFX using 3D hardware, Sound, wi-fi and USB and you will get my and many others attention.

Maybe you missed the part where I did buy the reference hardware.  You can thank me when usb3 is fixed and you have Radeon drivers and updated hda drivers. 😂😂😂

[terminills]

<test on>
AROS64 doesn't load with any of the menu options in VirtualBox 6.1
</test off>

I remember two months ago it AROS64 was still loaded, but with only two work options in the menu.  Broke.

Thank you...

[nikos]

I do not say big deal cause that would be a complete update with more gfx drivers, network drivers and all other kind of drivers. USB 3 support, wanderer updated, improved and so much more. If I fill inn a bug report who will test it when it is hardware related? In the past I rather communicate through a forum or directly with the developer.

Well, let's see I had hardware issues with the latest Ryzen processors which is exactly why Michal and Kalamatee both have Ryzen machines(Hint I purchased them).  Also if ABIv1 has hardware issues then eventually the ABIv0 backport will have the same ones.   What developers are reading these forums lately(besides obviously deadwood)?

Terminills: I'm afraid we are going nowhere with this. There are no interest in ABI v.1 apart from the 68k version. Who are going to work on the bug reports? Kalamatee and Michael, if you buy them the hardware you have? That is for sure an option, but no garantee they can fix, do anything about it. If you like to do something real serious about this my suggestion is that you buy Kalamatee and Michael some reference hardware and get everything to work. Native GFX using 3D hardware, Sound, wi-fi and USB and you will get my and many others attention.

Maybe you missed the part where I did buy the reference hardware.  You can thank me when usb3 is fixed and you have Radeon drivers and updated hda drivers.

No, I did not miss that part but I though it was just the mobo, CPU. If, when everything is working I will for sure thank you

[jacko]

just a side question, does the gcc is again working for ABIv1 x64? Last time I tried it was constantly crashing and some month later still same effect, difficult to develop, port, test something when even the gcc is not working and nobody cares.

[nikos]

just a side question, does the gcc is again working for ABIv1 x64? Last time I tried it was constantly crashing and some month later still same effect, difficult to develop, port, test something when even the gcc is not working and nobody cares.

Yes, exactly. The development tools are not working correct. Not strange no one compile anything.

[aGGreSSor]

just a side question, does the gcc is again working for ABIv1 x64? Last time I tried it was constantly crashing and some month later still same effect, difficult to develop, port, test something when even the gcc is not working and nobody cares.

I couldn't build the toolchain for ABIv1 x64. I'm not compiling for ABIv1 x86_64 and MorphOS, but compiling for AmigaOS 3, AmigaOS 4 and AROS ABIv0. If there was a ready-made and working toolchain for ABIv1 x64 downloaded from here, then I would quick recompile it all for ABIv1 x64. This is a trifle, but you have to start somewhere. In short, I’m not complaining, but I understand that I’ll sooner build the toolchain for ABIv1 and upload it there, than download it ready from there. 

[paolone]

just a side question, does the gcc is again working for ABIv1 x64? Last time I tried it was constantly crashing and some month later still same effect, difficult to develop, port, test something when even the gcc is not working and nobody cares.

I couldn't build the toolchain for ABIv1 x64. I'm not compiling for ABIv1 x86_64 and MorphOS, but compiling for AmigaOS 3, AmigaOS 4 and AROS ABIv0. If there was a ready-made and working toolchain for ABIv1 x64 downloaded from here, then I would quick recompile it all for ABIv1 x64. This is a trifle, but you have to start somewhere. In short, I’m not complaining, but I understand that I’ll sooner build the toolchain for ABIv1 and upload it there, than download it ready from there. 

Hi. I tried building a Ubuntu-based virtual machine which easily allow to compile abiv1-64 executables from Linux. Look for it in Icaros Desktop's website.


To be honest, though, the high curiosity about Icaros 64 was followed by the total lack of interest by 3rd party coders, who, with a couple of exceptions, completely avoided compiling things for 64bit architecture. Moreover, most of the programs you see on the Archives, although compiled for x64-aros, are NOT compatible anymore and nobody cares about this, neither aros developers, nor applications ones. So I wonder what the hell we're doing here. I don't like spending my time, money and efforts on something nobody cares about. So I turned back to my old cheer ABIv0 32-bit icaros and put the 64 bit version in the fridge. Better times will come, to bring it back to attention. At least I still have some real USER that enjoys what I do.


You can't attract developers if you continue repeating they will need to recompile their software over and over again.
You can't even attract the one-time casual dev, if AROS 64's gcc doesnt even work
and you definitely can't attract USERS, if you don't bring APPLICATIONS.


No users, no testing, no fixing, but just having two developers, the only ones that hasn't quarreled with each other, still bringing marvellous new features nobody will use, breaking the older ones without nobody even noticing.


Not exactly the bright future I dreamt of about AROS.

[serk118uk]

(There are no interest in ABI v.1) i dont think thats true, if someone create a ABI v.1 Distro like icaros/aspireOS and nicely polished design and silky look and amiga feeling. Users will try and people will restart compiling what ever they compiled for ab1_v.0 for ABI v.1..

[terminills]

(There are no interest in ABI v.1) i dont think thats true, if someone create a ABI v.1 Distro like icaros/aspireOS and nicely polished design and silky look and amiga feeling. Users will try and people will restart compiling what ever they compiled for ab1_v.0 for ABI v.1..

It’s hard to gain interest when certain people keep spreading completely false information about it.

[paolone]

(There are no interest in ABI v.1) i dont think thats true, if someone create a ABI v.1 Distro like icaros/aspireOS and nicely polished design and silky look and amiga feeling. Users will try and people will restart compiling what ever they compiled for ab1_v.0 for ABI v.1..

Here's one. As polished as I could. Both native/hosted mode work (at least for Linux).
https://vmwaros.blogspot.com/p/64-bit.html

[nikos]

(There are no interest in ABI v.1) i dont think thats true, if someone create a ABI v.1 Distro like icaros/aspireOS and nicely polished design and silky look and amiga feeling. Users will try and people will restart compiling what ever they compiled for ab1_v.0 for ABI v.1..

It’s hard to gain interest when certain people keep spreading completely false information about it.

What exactly is the false information about?

[cdimauro]

(There are no interest in ABI v.1) i dont think thats true, if someone create a ABI v.1 Distro like icaros/aspireOS and nicely polished design and silky look and amiga feeling. Users will try and people will restart compiling what ever they compiled for ab1_v.0 for ABI v.1..

It’s hard to gain interest when certain people keep spreading completely false information about it.

Like that Intel's SGX extensions are needed to help debugging multi-threaded applications?