AROS World Exec
Development => Development (General) => Topic started by: deadwood on June 07, 2022, 11:01:26 AM
-
Moved from another thread, please continue here.
-
Thanks deadwood, you can move or delete posts Scalos
@ OlafS3
Do you have tested it with icon.library from PeterK? On 68k I always use it. Perhaps it solves the problem at least on 68k
No 68k software can run on AROS x86
Also on OS3/Aros68k icon.library won't work on Scalos, Scalos uses its own iconobject.library and an iconobject datatype system, the icon.library by Peterk if present will be ignored !
-
@Amigasystem
I have no artefacts with icons on 68k
@deadwood
I have tested the preferences on several win hosted versions. The problem is on all versions but I have seen something. The preferences work normal except you press input or locale preferences. Then the preference dialogs no longer open or at least with long lag. So it seems to be related there
-
Hmm, by preferences you don't mean configuration files, but the actually programs in Prefs directory? So you are saying that when Scalos is used instead of Wanderer, some Preferences programs are not starting?
-
BTW, let's use this thread to document issues, bugs etc with regards to Scalos. I will use this information to plan in improvements where needed.
-
Hmm, by preferences you don't mean configuration files, but the actually programs in Prefs directory? So you are saying that when Scalos is used instead of Wanderer, some Preferences programs are not starting?
Yes exact. I do not mean the preference files in env: but the preference dialogs in Prefs. They work normal in Wanderer but if I try to open input or locale they try to start but do not and after that all the preference dialogs do not open or at least it needs a lot of time. As long I avoid the two (input or locale) preference dialogs open normal
I just tested it on Wanderer. All preference dialogs open but input or locale seem to need a little longer
On Aros 68k there is no problem
-
Two more questions:
a) Are you doing your tests with preferences under Windows-hosted ABIv0?
b) Does Scalos replace programs in Prefs with its own programs or are "AROS" preference programs only being used?
-
@Amigasystem
I have no artefacts with icons on 68k
A bit of clarity
- OS3 + Scalos the DualPNG Icons "are not supported", create artifacts.
Years ago there was a version of Scalos that in the preferences had a special option that allowed to ultilize an external icon.library that of PeterK, but only a particular version of icon.library
- OS3 + Workbench + Icon.library, DualPNG Icons are perfect no problem
On your OS3 with Scalos do you use DualPNG icons?
DualPNG icons, are two PNG images combined, while AROS and OS4 Icons are totally different, basically they are similar to the old PowerIcons icons used by Distro OS3 "AmigaSYS"
-
Hmm, by preferences you don't mean configuration files, but the actually programs in Prefs directory? So you are saying that when Scalos is used instead of Wanderer, some Preferences programs are not starting?
Basically with Scalos on AROS x86, if from the Prefs folder, you run a "Wanderer" application for example AHI Prefs, and then run a second or third application example, Input, Icontrol, these will not work or will do so very slowly.
If you run multiple Wanderer Preference Apps at the same time, the system crashes without causing errors
I haven't tested your new ISO D4 yet, I'm doing it now.
-
@Amigasystem
I have no artefacts with icons on 68k
A bit of clarity
- OS3 + Scalos the DualPNG Icons "are not supported", create artifacts.
Years ago there was a version of Scalos that in the preferences had a special option that allowed to ultilize an external icon.library that of PeterK, but only a particular version of icon.library
- OS3 + Workbench + Icon.library, DualPNG Icons are perfect no problem
On your OS3 with Scalos do you use DualPNG icons?
DualPNG icons, are two PNG images combined, while AROS and OS4 Icons are totally different, basically they are similar to the old PowerIcons icons used by Distro OS3 "AmigaSYS"
Could you attach some of the icons that do not work so I could test it on my distributions?
-
Two more questions:
a) Are you doing your tests with preferences under Windows-hosted ABIv0?
b) Does Scalos replace programs in Prefs with its own programs or are "AROS" preference programs only being used?
I use Windows Hosted ABI0 and no I try to start the normal Aros preference programs. Scalos has a special preference program but this does not replace the normal aros preferences. Scalos (as I understand) was at first designed as a extension of 3.9 using all system preferences. So Input, Local, Screenmode and so on are not replaced by it.
-
Could you attach some of the icons that do not work so I could test it on my distributions?
All the Icons in my AROS One Distribution are "DualPNG", DualPNG you also get them on Aminet native for OS3.9
These icons (DualPNG) on OS3 to handle them and see them well, you must have PeterK's Icon.library installed, or the AfA OS extension.
https://aminet.net/package/pix/picon/AlpyreIcons1
https://aminet.net/pix/picon/AlpyreIcons2.lha
https://aminet.net/package/pix/picon/kens_icons_v4
-
Kens icons work for me
Screenshot (Scalos on Aros 68k)
http://www.aros-platform.de/kens.png
I have opened kensV4 from your links and all are shown correct
http://www.aros-platform.de/kens2.png
and here on X86 (Win Hosted with Scalos)
http://www.aros-platform.de/kens3.png
-
Take a good look at your third screenshot, on some icons there is no filename (same thing happens on AROS x86 + Scalos, see my first screenshot), if you try to widen and narrow the windows you will see that some icons, especially the folders will be cut off.
Actually you have to see the icons as in my second screenshot made on OS3+AfA OS, but you can see them fine even on AROS 68k + Icon.library by PeterK
Also with mose you have to click on the uicona and show the Glow, and there you see the difference with normal OS3.9 icons (Glow Icon), which are not DualPNG.
-
Here is the screenshot on AfA OS, the DualPNG icons are perfect
-
Take a good look at your third screenshot, on some icons there is no filename (same thing happens on AROS x86 + Scalos, see my first screenshot), if you try to widen and narrow the windows you will see that some icons, especially the folders will be cut off.
Actually you have to see the icons as in my second screenshot made on OS3+AfA OS, but you can see them fine even on AROS 68k + Icon.library by PeterK
Also with mose you have to click on the uicona and show the Glow, and there you see the difference with normal OS3.9 icons (Glow Icon), which are not DualPNG.
to avoid hidden icons simply activate "Check for overlapping icons" in Scalos Prefs
http://aros-platform.de/Overlapping.png
perhaps some of your problems are not errors but can be solved with configuration
-
You did not look well at your screenshot, I am not talking about hidden icons, but icons without "filename"
I enclose part of your screensht, as said these are bugs no user fixable problems !!!
-
there are no icons without label. The text is hidden by another icon. If you would do what I propose you would see that this is solved.
I have downloaded the Alpyre icons:
http://aros-platform.de/Alpyre.png
as you see no text is hidden. It depends on the configuration. Scalos is much more configurable and complex than Wanderer
-
On AROS x86 the icons are not covered, also as mentioned there are also cut icons and artifacts, I will test also AROS 68k to see if the same thing happens.
Try widening and narrowing windows and check you have graphic artifacts, in the folder there must be folder icons and data icons
-
You are right about the icon filenames was covered, unfortunately on Scalos I have not yet found the tool to automatically sort the Icons, also I can't find the Icon information tool to edit the Toltypes, to you Scalos FileTypes Prefs works fine to you !
-
On AROS x86 the icons are not covered, also as mentioned there are also cut icons and artifacts, I will test also AROS 68k to see if the same thing happens.
Try widening and narrowing windows and check you have graphic artifacts, in the folder there must be folder icons and data icons
indeed refresh on X86 seems not to be perfect. On 68k I have not seen anything like that
-
On AROS x86 the icons are not covered, also as mentioned there are also cut icons and artifacts, I will test also AROS 68k to see if the same thing happens.
Try widening and narrowing windows and check you have graphic artifacts, in the folder there must be folder icons and data icons
to edit tooltypes rightclick on icon and "information" then select icon
-
On X86 the right button doesn't work, there are no menus available, does it work for you on X86 from where you activated it?
-
On X86 the right button doesn't work, there are no menus available, does it work for you on X86 from where you activated it?
yes of course. You miss config files
this is mine for menu. Copy it in env:scalos then menu should work
-
Additionally all config files I use (env:scalos)
-
Your Menu13.prefs and config "OS3" works but AROS x86 after you use it a little crashes, also it does not run the Scalos Prefs App which crashes.
As said mixing OS3 settings with X86 is never a good solution !
-
However, in fairness I report that even Menu13.prefs released x86 crashes "Scalos Prefs App".
On my AROS One to use "Scalos Prefs App" I deleted and recreated from scratch "Scalos Prefs App"
-
Two more questions:
a) Are you doing your tests with preferences under Windows-hosted ABIv0?
b) Does Scalos replace programs in Prefs with its own programs or are "AROS" preference programs only being used?
I use Windows Hosted ABI0 and no I try to start the normal Aros preference programs. Scalos has a special preference program but this does not replace the normal aros preferences. Scalos (as I understand) was at first designed as a extension of 3.9 using all system preferences. So Input, Local, Screenmode and so on are not replaced by it.
That's actually good. Thanks for explanation.
-
So to sum up the discussion:
1) There is no issues with DualPNG icons. It was a configuration problem.
2) There is an issues with right click - I just tried that under linux-hosted with Scalos from 20180423 release and I can right click and the select Information and get the Information panel - no crashes. Can you describe in more detail what is the problem?
-
Your Menu13.prefs and config "OS3" works but AROS x86 after you use it a little crashes, also it does not run the Scalos Prefs App which crashes.
As said mixing OS3 settings with X86 is never a good solution !
you can use the pref files from contrib and only add menu13 to it. That should work. And I have no crashes. I use scalos from contrib.
-
So to sum up the discussion:
1) There is no issues with DualPNG icons. It was a configuration problem.
2) There is an issues with right click - I just tried that under linux-hosted with Scalos from 20180423 release and I can right click and the select Information and get the Information panel - no crashes. Can you describe in more detail what is the problem?
with crashes he propably mean that pref files not work. Of course I have changed f.e. background and that is not included in his distribution. So my advice would be to use the original pref files from env:scalos in the contrib and only add menu13 because this is missing in contrib. Then he can change the settings. I do not get crashes too on X86. And you can use the config files on both 68k and X86 without any problem. As I described... there is only the problem with input and locale dialogs.
-
So to sum up the discussion:
1) There is no issues with DualPNG icons. It was a configuration problem.
For me DualPNGs are not supported, see screenshot, unless the cause is elsewhere
-
So to sum up the discussion:
1) There is no issues with DualPNG icons. It was a configuration problem.
For me DualPNGs are not supported, see screenshot, unless the cause is elsewhere
Have you done what I advised? It does not look so
-
I have always used Scalos from "AROS-20180423-1-any-i386-contrib.tar" on AROS x86, where the Scalos preference program works but I do not have the Menu on the Workbench and the automatic layout does not work.
On AROS 68k Scalos, on the other hand, the Menu works and the automatic icon layout works as well, not work Gadgets, I have to certify better
For DualPNG Icons if you don't have automatic icon layout you can't make the right assessment, on the Scalos site there is no information (at least I don't see it) about support 100%100.
See screenshot, graphical artifacts that could depend on Dual PNG ? The problem may disappear with automatic icon arrangement.
I would add that Scalos 68k was compiled with GCC 6.5.0 while Scalos x86 was compiled with GCC 6.3.0
-
I have always used Scalos from "AROS-20180423-1-any-i386-contrib.tar" on AROS x86, where the Scalos preference program works but I do not have the Menu on the Workbench and the automatic layout does not work.
On AROS 68k Scalos, on the other hand, the Menu works and the automatic icon layout works as well, not work Gadgets, I have to certify better
For DualPNG Icons if you don't have automatic icon layout you can't make the right assessment, on the Scalos site there is no information (at least I don't see it) about support 100%100.
So what you are saying is that DualPNG icons are rendered correctly when you enable "automatic layout". Enabling "automatic layout" works for you on 68k, but does not work for you on x86. In this correct understanding?
-
Yes, as you can see from the screenshot, on AROS 68k it works auto disposition, but from the Wanderer menu, the native Scalos Menu is not present on AROS 68k.
On AROS 68 Gadgets don't work, also tried other Gadget paths
-
On AROS x86 Instead the Gadgets work, but the menu does not work.
If you use OS3 configs the menu is there but the Scalos Preference Apps do not work
-
there is a problem with theme on Aros. Both use theme: . To solve that I copied the graphic files from Scalos in the aros theme files to solve that. I would recommend to have a backup of the env:scalos files when playing around with it. You can make preferences that make it unusable.
-
I am not at home currently and cannot test it (will do later if there are problems). In general I would say Scalos is a little more complicated to setup correctly. That might cause some misunderstandings. Also it includes a lot of preference options, much more than f.e. Wanderer. If you do something wrong there it might look as a bug whereas it is not.
-
@AMIGASYSTEM
Thanks for both screen shots. This is really a preferred way of reporting problems by me. It make clear what are the differences.
-
@OlafS3
Yes, looking at the screen shots I can imagine the multitude of configuration options can lead to some settings that can be seen as bugs.
-
there is a problem with theme on Aros. Both use theme: . To solve that I copied the graphic files from Scalos in the aros theme files to solve that. I would recommend to have a backup of the env:scalos files when playing around with it. You can make preferences that make it unusable.
This happens only on 68k which uses Theme path: you can solve it son an "Add Path", or with a decimal editor change name, even a seplice volcale
On AROS X86 no problemas the Theme path is Scalos:Themes\Default_Theme
-
there is a problem with theme on Aros. Both use theme: . To solve that I copied the graphic files from Scalos in the aros theme files to solve that. I would recommend to have a backup of the env:scalos files when playing around with it. You can make preferences that make it unusable.
This happens only on 68k which uses Theme path: you can solve it son an "Add Path", or with a decimal editor change name, even a seplice volcale
On AROS X86 no problemas the Theme path is Scalos:Themes\Default_Theme
As far as I can see Theme: is set by startup sequence in both x86 nad 68k, see this part of startup sequence
If EXISTS "ENV:SYS/theme.var"
Assign "THEME:" "${SYS/theme.var}"
else
Assign "THEME:" "THEMES:AROSDefault"
endif
However does that mean you are aware how to solve the missing images on Scalos preference (what you call Gadgets) but you are still reporting this problem for the record?
-
On AROS, there are two absolute paths THEME and THEMES.
THEME= Theme in use
THEMS= Themes Archive
If the AROS 68k themes are copied to the "THEME" path the gadget icons will show up in Scalos Prefs, but they will not show up on the windows on the Workbench, I do more testing and then attach screenshots.
Also if on AROS 68k you change Theme, gadgets will not be able to be seen because in THEME path moved to other folder :)
-
Copied the gadgets in "TMEME" I tried to change the path but Scalos Prefs "can't save" because it crashes, after a while it crashes WinUAE too !
Gadgets on AROS 68k anyway are not visible on Workbench windows.
As said Scalos in my opinion is not usable on AROS 68k and X86, Work in progress, Wander is much but much more Stable and functional.
-
deadwood will make scalos functional you know it needs fixing at the moment
-
@Amigasystem
I do not want to have a discussion about that with you again
I disagree
That is your opinion... I will supply Deadwood with test versions so he can decide himself based on facts and is not dependent on "opinions" (be it my opinion or yours)
-
then we will wait for the opinions of deadwood who however expressed favorably that he wanted to work on scalos
hi
-
@deadwood
I copied "Menu13.prefs" and "Scalos.pre" from AROS 68k to AROS x86, "Menu Scalos" and "Menu Wander" work but the Scalos Apps Prefs Scalos freeze, see video.
In the video you can also see that the "Menu of Scalos" fails to place icons, while the "Menu of Wanderer" can automatically place icons, in the video you can also see the artifacts on the DualPNG icons.
Also note the slow opening of windows (no the system one, but the internal folders)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19etrPIuQipBQltz9Fj_HspaRjibC9wso/view?usp=sharing
@OlafS3
I am not against Scalos, in fact I like it very much, the problem is that before putting it on AROS x86/68k it has to work well, You cannot distribute a Distro with all these problems !!!
-
@Amigasystem
As I wrote you are free to have your opinion as I have mine. I will supply Deadwood with test environments and he can decide himself. I really want to stop it here please. I only asked Deadwood to look at the problem with the two preference dialogs that not open on X86 and not this discussion again.
-
Ok, I will not do any more tests for Scalos !
-
Ok, I will not do any more tests for Scalos !
You can report problems like the artifacts but not always repeat your conclusions. That is opinion, not fact.
The advantage and disadvantage (at the same time) is Scalos is much more complex than Wanderer. There are many options that change behavior and it is more complicated to install. That makes it look like bugs whereas that is often not the case. Deadwood is able to draw his own conclusions from what he sees when using it. I will supply Scalos installations so he can look at it. You are free to do the same.
-
Yes, as you can see from the screenshot, on AROS 68k it works auto disposition, but from the Wanderer menu, the native Scalos Menu is not present on AROS 68k.
On AROS 68 Gadgets don't work, also tried other Gadget paths
The gadgets work on Aros 68k... I could make a screenshot but I am not at home. I will show it this evening. As I wrote solution is copying images from scalos to individual themes on aros. Then it is ok.
-
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19etrPIuQipBQltz9Fj_HspaRjibC9wso/view?usp=sharing
Thanks for the video. It made clear what you were describing.
-
Here is list of issues I noted down from the discussion so far. I understand that some of them have workarounds (like THEME: assign) but they are not addressed in the default build.
1) (x86 & 68k) Menu13.prefs file is missing in AROS build
2) (x86) DualPNG icon is rendered wrongly. Half of the icon only or text is missing.
Using "Scalos -> Update" does not fix it.
Using "Window -> Clean up by -> Name" fixes the current view, but when scrolled down newly shown icons are wrong agin
3) (x86) After copyign Menu13.prefs and Scalos.prefs from 68k, Scalos Preferences application freezes at startup
4) (x86 & 68k) There is conflict in THEME: assign between AROS and Scalos. Both use it for their own theme settings
5) (x86 & 68k) If THEME: is set as default on AROS, button images are not visible in Scalos Preferences application
6) (x86 & 68k) If THEME: is set as default on AROS, top nagivation toolbar is not visible in drawer windows
7) (x86 & 68k) Refresh of drawer windows is considerably slower than on Wanderer
8) (x86) Prefs/Locale is not working when started from Scalos and causes other preferences to fail.
9) (x86) Prefs/Input is not working when started from Scalos and causes other preferences to fail.
Let me know if I documented them correctly.
@AMIGASYSTEM, @OlafS3. I see value of both your input and I would like to work with both of you on getting Scalos more "in shape" once I'm done with ABIv0 refresh if you can acknowledge that you have difference in opinions and put them asides, at least for this work. Otherwise it will be pretty irritable experience for all of us and that's not something I'm interested in.
-
Here is list of issues I noted down from the discussion so far. I understand that some of them have workarounds (like THEME: assign) but they are not addressed in the default build.
1) (x86 & 68k) Menu13.prefs file is missing in AROS build
2) (x86) DualPNG icon is rendered wrongly. Half of the icon only or text is missing.
Using "Scalos -> Update" does not fix it.
Using "Window -> Clean up by -> Name" fixes the current view, but when scrolled down newly shown icons are wrong agin
3) (x86) After copyign Menu13.prefs and Scalos.prefs from 68k, Scalos Preferences application freezes at startup
4) (x86 & 68k) There is conflict in THEME: assign between AROS and Scalos. Both use it for their own theme settings
5) (x86 & 68k) If THEME: is set as default on AROS, button images are not visible in Scalos Preferences application
6) (x86 & 68k) If THEME: is set as default on AROS, top nagivation toolbar is not visible in drawer windows
7) (x86 & 68k) Refresh of drawer windows is considerably slower than on Wanderer
8) (x86) Prefs/Locale is not working when started from Scalos and causes other preferences to fail.
9) (x86) Prefs/Input is not working when started from Scalos and causes other preferences to fail.
Let me know if I documented them correctly.
@AMIGASYSTEM, @OlafS3. I see value of both your input and I would like to work with both of you on getting Scalos more "in shape" once I'm done with ABIv0 refresh if you can acknowledge that you have difference in opinions and put them asides, at least for this work. Otherwise it will be pretty irritable experience for all of us and that's not something I'm interested in.
I will try that and hopefully Amigasystem too
I do not think that the list is correct...
1) yes I copied it from 3.X version and then changed it with scalos preferences
2) icons are shown correctly including label. It depends on a option in configuration. Sometimes icons overlap so one icon hides the label of another icon. So it is not a bug in my view.
3) is not correct either. He propably used my configuration but if I f.e. use certain images for windows that are not present on another installation pref file might fail. I f.e. use same images on both X86 and 68k and exchange preference files without any freezes or crash
4) 5) and (I assume) 6) can be solved by copying images to theme:. I copied scalos images in every theme directory and it worked. At least on context menu and in preference dialog
7) yes it is slower. On the other hand you have tons of options how to display icons in a window that are not in wanderer. Everything has a prize. Of course making it faster is never bad.
8. and 9) yes
-
@OlafS3
4,5,6 - I understand there is a workaround. I want this to work "by default", without a need for a workaround.
3 - that is what I see on the video. I'll add a note that this is possibly due to images being stored in copied configuration that are not present on disk
2 - that is not what I see on the video that AMIGASYSTEM shared. There the icons are damaged with default display. Can you let me know (best with a screen shot) what option where needs to be changed as a workaround?
-
@OlafS3
In your systems you have disabled Wander Themes, try enabling them and when you change Theme to Appearance you will no longer see the Gadgets.
When you use Appearance the Path "Theme" data "changes" because it moves to the chosen Theme folder!!!
In OS you can't copy settings to all themes, it doesn't seem like a thing to do this
You see my video, use DualPNG icons, try to do the same thing and show us your video
Scalos is no more Complex has one program unique that handles all preferences like Dopus5 and Ambient, this does not mean it works better than Wanderer which has many Amiga-style preference apps makes it lighter and more intuitive.
Example Wanderer fixes the Icons Automatically "Forever," you don't bio need to ask every time
-
Scalos is no more Complex has one program unique that handles all preferences like Dopus5 and Ambient, this does not mean it works better than Wanderer which has many Amiga-style preference apps makes it lighter and more intuitive.
Example Wanderer fixes the Icons Automatically "Forever," you don't bio need to ask every time
I've taken a note of that problem in Scalos, please see my list above. If I worded it wrongly, let me know. Any other reason to bring up this topic?
-
There are only two things that are not correct:
3) Regarding the crash, this happens if it is present in Env-Archive/Scalos, the file Menu13.prefs, the crash happens with any version of "Menu13.prefs", whether taken from OS3 or from "AROS-20180423-1-any-i386-contrib"
4) On AROS x86, there are no conflicts, as you can see from the archive "AROS-20180423-1-any-i386-contrib", Scalos on AROS X86, looks for its data files in the path:
Scalos:Themes\Default_Theme
-
4) On AROS x86, there are no conflicts, as you can see from the archive "AROS-20180423-1-any-i386-contrib", Scalos on AROS X86, looks for its data files in the path:
Scalos:Themes\Default_Theme
You are correct that Scalos in AROS ABIv0 uses Scalos:Themes directory. So why does the 68k version use Theme: assign? Are you using AmigaOS version of Scalos or the one compiled from AROS 68k contrib?
-
Yes I am using Scalos includedin "AROS-20220321-amiga-m68k-contrib.tar"
Scalos v 1.9 (4.18), Scalos Main Preferences v40.28, all Compiled with GCC 6.50
I should add that even with AROS 68k, if the Menu13.prefs file is present, if you try to save with Sallos Prefs, you get a crash!
-
Ok, here is update list
1) (x86 & 68k) Menu13.prefs file is missing in AROS build
2) (x86) DualPNG icon is rendered wrongly. Half of the icon only or text is missing.
Using "Scalos -> Update" does not fix it.
Using "Window -> Clean up by -> Name" fixes the current view, but when scrolled down newly shown icons are wrong agin
3) (x86) After copyign Menu13.prefs from OS3 or ABIv0 contrib, Scalos Preferences application freezes at startup
This is possibly due to images being stored in copied configuration that are not present on disk
4) (x86 & 68k) There is conflict in THEME: assign between AROS and Scalos. Both use it for their own theme settings
Note: default Scalos themes path is Scalos:Themes, not THEME. However THEME: is hardcoded in ~100 paths refering to
image files.
5) (x86 & 68k) If THEME: is set as default on AROS, button images are not visible in Scalos Preferences application
6) (x86 & 68k) If THEME: is set as default on AROS, top nagivation toolbar is not visible in drawer windows
7) (x86 & 68k) Refresh of drawer windows is considerably slower than on Wanderer
8) (x86) Prefs/Locale is not working when started from Scalos and causes other preferences to fail.
9) (x86) Prefs/Input is not working when started from Scalos and causes other preferences to fail.
10) (68k) If Menu13.prefs file is present, saving Scalos Preferences causes a crash
-
@OlafS3
In your systems you have disabled Wander Themes, try enabling them and when you change Theme to Appearance you will no longer see the Gadgets.
When you use Appearance the Path "Theme" data "changes" because it moves to the chosen Theme folder!!!
In OS you can't copy settings to all themes, it doesn't seem like a thing to do this
You see my video, use DualPNG icons, try to do the same thing and show us your video
Scalos is no more Complex has one program unique that handles all preferences like Dopus5 and Ambient, this does not mean it works better than Wanderer which has many Amiga-style preference apps makes it lighter and more intuitive.
Example Wanderer fixes the Icons Automatically "Forever," you don't bio need to ask every time
you are wrong. I indeed use Themes from Aros. That is one of advantages compared to Magellan. Magellan replaces much so Themes are not visible. In Scalos it works
Example here Scalos on 68k with OS4 theme:
http://aros-platform.de/OS4.png
-
4) On AROS x86, there are no conflicts, as you can see from the archive "AROS-20180423-1-any-i386-contrib", Scalos on AROS X86, looks for its data files in the path:
Scalos:Themes\Default_Theme
You are correct that Scalos in AROS ABIv0 uses Scalos:Themes directory. So why does the 68k version use Theme: assign? Are you using AmigaOS version of Scalos or the one compiled from AROS 68k contrib?
I need to correct my statement. Scalos:Theme is present in Scalos sources "as themes directory". However THEME: is used in almost 100 places hardcoded as a path to images. So there is a conflict between AROS and Scalos. Both use THEME: assign and expect certain files there.
-
@Deadwood
yes my workaround was copying the scalos images in all theme directories. That worked without conflicts but is of course not a elegant solution
-
you are wrong. I indeed use Themes from Aros. That is one of advantages compared to Magellan. Magellan replaces much so Themes are not visible. In Scalos it works
I would say that's not really the case, even with Magellan you can share Workbench themes, as you can see from my screenshot I use the same Window Theme, same backgrounds, same fonts, same pointers, and I even use them at the same time.
-
@Amigasystem
you use Magellan as desktop replacement?
-
@Amigasystem
you use Magellan as desktop replacement?
Yes only and at the same time, but only for testing when someone on the forums needs, I do at the same thing for AfAOS, AIAB, AmiKit, AOS 3.21/3.2/3.21 Amilator, Amithlon, but also Windows, all OS, here you can see some of my OS:
https://www.amiganews.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=20569
-
@Deadwood
Regarding 2 I think this solves it:
http://aros-platform.de/Overlapping.png
"Check for overlapping icons" must be activated
but Amigasystem is right that icons are partly not shown correctly
-
Ok, note taken.
-
Regarding 2 I think this solves it:
http://aros-platform.de/Overlapping.png
I know those options but they work only on AROS 68k, on AROS x86 those options are ignored !
-
Is not the right thing that should be, there is a method to make icon placement work on Scalos AROS x86, basically if the icons are "first" repositioned by Wander, and taken a snapshot of the icons.
Having done this, if we move the icons the Scalos menu tool "Update" restores the "Initial" positions
Of course, the Scalos "Update" menu tool does not work if natively the icons are scattered, unless it first takes a snapshot of "all icons"
-
Regarding 2 I think this solves it:
http://aros-platform.de/Overlapping.png
I know those options but they work only on AROS 68k, on AROS x86 those options are ignored !
Check for overlapping icons is not ignored on X86 (just tested it)
-
Regarding 2 I think this solves it:
http://aros-platform.de/Overlapping.png
I know those options but they work only on AROS 68k, on AROS x86 those options are ignored !
What is wrong on the attached picture? I don't seem to see anything not drawn correctly.
-
@deadwood
that has nothing to do with the screenshot
Amigasystem claimed the option "overlapping icons..." when clicked is ignored on X86 and I just tested it and that is not true.
Without it enabled it can happen that labels of icons are hidden for example, with it enabled this not happens. That not solves problems that icons are not refreshed in some cases.
-
Yes, I understand what you describe, thus my question. On AMIGASYSTEM screenshot the "overlapping" option is checked and all the icons and labels are drawn correctly, which would suggest that the option works, while AMIGASYSTEM is saying it is now. My question is whether I'm missing something on this screen shot.
-
@OlafS3
You have to do the tests with icons that have not already been stored by Wanderer, probably my English is incomprehensible.
Watch this video carefully, and then do the same thing, showing a verification video of your own, if it works for you then there is something in my installation of Scalos that is not working
Basically you have to take some icon from the various drawers, and copy them to RAM or copy new drawer, done this verdai that Scalos will not be able to of automatically arranging them correctly.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pb05li3l-MUiAi80cX237Yf1__Unhp_T/view
-
Ok, the icons still overlap each other on your video. I assume you have the option for overlap selected? (you didn't show this on video). Maybe the option works only after a reboot?
-
The option is active, but when the Menu work (if Menu13.prefs is present), the option cannot be shown Scalos Prefs crashes, to run Scalos Prefs you have to delete "Menu13.prefs", but then the Scalos Menu does not work.
-
Ok, the icons still overlap each other on your video. I assume you have the option for overlap selected? (you didn't show this on video). Maybe the option works only after a reboot?
I have tested it again... copyied kens icons in ram: without option enabled and then some labels were hidden, the same with option enabled and this was not the case. To me it looks like it is working, also on X86. So I assume something is wrong with installation of Amigasystem in my view. I will reupload my own test environment.
-
The option is active, but when the Menu work (if Menu13.prefs is present), the option cannot be shown Scalos Prefs crashes, to run Scalos Prefs you have to delete "Menu13.prefs", but then the Scalos Menu does not work.
I have reuploaded my own Win Hosted X86 installation
https://aros-platform.de/Scalos_x86.zip
your environment is obviously not working
and delete there the file env:zune/usethemeprefs
-
just copy kens icons to ram by copying them from arch/kens and then open ram:
it works
-
I just found another trick... if you put opaque in wbstartup the icons are correctly shown, even if you change windows or scroll in it f.e.
-
your environment is obviously not working
I used your System, started your Scalos_X86 in real AROS system with WMware:
- Icon Menu does not automatically restore Icons (see video).
- Icons get cut off, not because of overlay, because Scalos does not support DualPNG and Icons (see video)
- You have outdated Zune libraries (see video)
- Scalos Prefs works because it is not an updated AROS version
Can you make your own video and do the same things cho I did ?
Also you copied Scalos preferences, in the Root and in all themes, this means you have on a Distro 3.718 Files and 757 folder for a simple setting !!!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1huJmVGCmr7q9W2dLdEggiClUIPBpvS0D/view?usp=sharing
-
please do what I already recommended: "and delete there the file env:zune/usethemeprefs"
then there is no requester anymore and it looks like 3.1
additionally opaque in wbstartup (as I already wrote)
there still seems to be a problem with refresh of os4 icons, kens icons f.e. work and refresh perfectly
-
I am under the impression that you don't see my videos, that is your 1:1 system I didn't change anything, the icons as said Scalos doesn't support AROS, OS4 and OS4 icons, you need the developers to update the "iconobject.library"
-
@Deadwood
II have reuploaded Scalos_X86.zip as current version with the changes for testing
I have one error... I open main directory and then pref directory. There I start "Scalos Prefs" and close it. Then I close pref directory window and suddenly get a error:
http://aros-platform.de/Error2.png
-
I am under the impression that you don't see my videos, that is your 1:1 system I didn't change anything, the icons as said Scalos doesn't support AROS, OS4 and OS4 icons, you need the developers to update the "iconobject.library"
The icons from aros work perfectly, only OS4 icons not (as I already wrote...)
@Amigasystem
either do what I already recommended:
"please do what I already recommended: "and delete there the file env:zune/usethemeprefs"
then there is no requester anymore and it looks like 3.1
additionally opaque in wbstartup (as I already wrote)
there still seems to be a problem with refresh of os4 icons, kens icons f.e. work and refresh perfectly"
or redownload the archive (I have uploaded a slightly changed version)
The icons from aros and kens icons work perfect, only icons from OS4 not (the tcp icon you showed is exactly from there). I do not know if you use those in your distribution. I use kens icons mainly so this is not a problem to me.
-
I have just reuploaded Scalos_X86.zip
small change: "Context menu on dragbar only" in "window! (Scalos prefs) activated
that makes it possible that the shiny aros menu is shown when clicking in a window
http://aros-platform.de/ConextMenu.png
-
small change: "Context menu on dragbar only" in "window! (Scalos prefs) activated
that makes it possible that the shiny aros menu is shown when clicking in a window
This way you are loosing the Scalos "window" context menu, no? (the one with "Close", "Open Parent", "Find" options)
-
http://aros-platform.de/ConextMenu.png
BTW, are you able to update your site to use HTTPS? I have trouble accessing pure HTTP sites.
-
small change: "Context menu on dragbar only" in "window! (Scalos prefs) activated
that makes it possible that the shiny aros menu is shown when clicking in a window
This way you are loosing the Scalos "window" context menu, no? (the one with "Close", "Open Parent", "Find" options)
No if you click f.e. on a icon you still get that menu. And inside that shiny menu there are "Open parent" and so on too
-
http://aros-platform.de/ConextMenu.png
BTW, are you able to update your site to use HTTPS? I have trouble accessing pure HTTP sites.
then I have to upload it somewhere else. I use the ssl certificate I have already for my company domain. I could try to attach it here (with some extra work)
-
@OlafS3
As said mixing different versions of Scalos and copying so many preferences everywhere is not good, calculate that the average user will always encounter problems.
Recreate a system using "native Scalos AROS only" included in the latest "AROS-20190416-1-any-i386-contrib-GCC650.tar".
Using old icons on a powerful modern system like AROS x86 makes no sense, powerful AROS x86 native RTG , so it precludes having more qualitative icons.
-
small change: "Context menu on dragbar only" in "window! (Scalos prefs) activated
that makes it possible that the shiny aros menu is shown when clicking in a window
This way you are loosing the Scalos "window" context menu, no? (the one with "Close", "Open Parent", "Find" options)
No if you click f.e. on a icon you still get that menu. And inside that shiny menu there are "Open parent" and so on too
I checked this with 20190416-1 build and I think the menus when you right-click on an icon and when you right click in window but not on icons are slightly different. Anyhow I personally prefer the applications menu to remain on top bar instead being a context menu, so not a problem - I will just revert that setting.
-
@OlafS3
Recreate a system using "native Scalos AROS only" included in the latest "AROS-20190416-1-any-i386-contrib-GCC650.tar".
I agree here - we should standardize error reporting on the same version, otherwise we might be getting different results for the same actions.
I for example cannot open Scalos prefs in the 20190416-1 build. They crash right after start.
-
I have reuploaded my own Win Hosted X86 installation
https://aros-platform.de/Scalos_x86.zip
Can you tell me which release of AROS this is based off? I need to copy Linux-hosted kernel and the latest one is not compatible with this build (that's expected).
-
it was the latest 2018 I downloaded from your webpage. I have not tested it on the 2019 series
from this page:
https://www.axrt.org/index.php?tab=download-aros
-
@OlafS3
Recreate a system using "native Scalos AROS only" included in the latest "AROS-20190416-1-any-i386-contrib-GCC650.tar".
I agree here - we should standardize error reporting on the same version, otherwise we might be getting different results for the same actions.
I for example cannot open Scalos prefs in the 20190416-1 build. They crash right after start.
I used the last stable version (2018) so we should test it on newest 2019?
-
I don't know if anything changes, for sure compilation has changed now GCC 6.5.0, Menu13.prefs always crashes anyway !
https://ae.amigalife.org/index.php?topic=922.msg11273#new
-
@OlafS3
Recreate a system using "native Scalos AROS only" included in the latest "AROS-20190416-1-any-i386-contrib-GCC650.tar".
I agree here - we should standardize error reporting on the same version, otherwise we might be getting different results for the same actions.
I for example cannot open Scalos prefs in the 20190416-1 build. They crash right after start.
I used the last stable version (2018) so we should test it on newest 2019?
Yes, that would be welcomed. It will be the base from which I will start work on Scalos once I'm done with ABIv0 refresh. (though I will be using x86_64 version).
-
it was the latest 2018 I downloaded from your webpage. I have not tested it on the 2019 series
from this page:
https://www.axrt.org/index.php?tab=download-aros
Ok, thanks I got it working under Linux-hosted. Quick question: where do I change so that application menu is not a pop-up menu, but it is displayed in screens title bar?
-
@OlafS3
Well, there is some problem with some types of icons on your build. I used icon "borrowed" from Icaros. I resized the window so that half of the icons is visible. Then I move the window contents. Window remains damaged, see screen shot. This is not happening with the icons you are using. Not a big problem though. I'll eventually debug it and fix it.
-
it was the latest 2018 I downloaded from your webpage. I have not tested it on the 2019 series
from this page:
https://www.axrt.org/index.php?tab=download-aros
Ok, thanks I got it working under Linux-hosted. Quick question: where do I change so that application menu is not a pop-up menu, but it is displayed in screens title bar?
Scalos Prefs -> Popupmenu-> Sticky disablen
-
Scalos Prefs -> Popupmenu-> Sticky disablen
Hmm, are you talking about this option (see screenshot). Because menu still pops-out at pointer location. :/
-
It is controlled with Icontrol Popup or pulldown
-
You are right, thank you!
-
@deadwood
Crashing Scalos Pref is a PlugIn "Menu.prefsplugin", probably for the same reason the Scalos menu is not working properly !!!
If you try rename or delete "Menu.prefsplugin", Scalos Pref works without crashing anymore :)
-
@deadwood
Crashing Scalos Pref is a PlugIn "Menu.prefsplugin", probably for the same reason the Scalos menu is not working properly !!!
If you try rename or delete "Menu.prefsplugin", Scalos Pref works without crashing anymore :)
i deleted both menu.prefsplugin and filetype.prefsplugin in prefs directory, I still have palette, pattern and popupmenu
-
That's why Scalos Prefs was working for you, you could have said so :o
menu.prefsplugin is necessary and should not be deleted, it might be the cause of the failure to work
filetype.prefsplugin does not give any problem
-
@deadwood
Crashing Scalos Pref is a PlugIn "Menu.prefsplugin", probably for the same reason the Scalos menu is not working properly !!!
If you try rename or delete "Menu.prefsplugin", Scalos Pref works without crashing anymore :)
Yup, the crash is in Menu.prefsplugin. I'll eventually trace it and fix it.
-
@deadwood
Crashing Scalos Pref is a PlugIn "Menu.prefsplugin", probably for the same reason the Scalos menu is not working properly !!!
If you try rename or delete "Menu.prefsplugin", Scalos Pref works without crashing anymore :)
Yup, the crash is in Menu.prefsplugin. I'll eventually trace it and fix it.
Thanks, you would also need to change the "Theme" path, you can't copy thousands of files and bloat all the themes.
I tried renaming in the settings from "Theme" to "Thems",wallpapers and preferences work excluding the Gadgets ones, probably because of the "Menu.prefsplugin" which doesn't allow changing the button image paths
-
@deadwood
Crashing Scalos Pref is a PlugIn "Menu.prefsplugin", probably for the same reason the Scalos menu is not working properly !!!
If you try rename or delete "Menu.prefsplugin", Scalos Pref works without crashing anymore :)
Yup, the crash is in Menu.prefsplugin. I'll eventually trace it and fix it.
Thanks, you would also need to change the "Theme" path, you can't copy thousands of files and bloat all the themes.
I tried renaming in the settings from "Theme" to "Thems",wallpapers and preferences work excluding the Gadgets ones, probably because of the "Menu.prefsplugin" which doesn't allow changing the button image paths
Gadget image paths are hardcoded in the source code in form of THEME:xxx. This has to be changes in the source code itself in order to separate Scalos theme location from AROS theme location.
-
Yes indeed, to make them work I copied "only" the folder "Windows" containing them to the "Theme" path
The result is good, it lacks good compatibility of PNG icons and speed in opening folders with icons
-
I think I have found another X86 issue on Scalos
if you have a directory without icons (for example image files) and you select Show all then on X86 the files are shown with wrong icons (not the correct def icons) and with snapshot all the wrong icon files are used
the same works on 68k correctly
I use new aros 2019 branch, win hosted version
for checks I have uploaded my own test version
https://aros-platform.de/scalos_x86.zip
-
Did you associate the def_icon with each file type?
-
I use the preferences from 68k that should work the same (and normally do)
Scalos filetypes recognition obviously works like "deficons"
-
Also on OS3 file recognition is done through Def_Icons, thanks to the def_ icon you can associate icon and tool, without Def_icon you will not be able to associate anything, see OS 3.0/3.1, which do not have def_Icons "by default", and therefore can never these two OS recognize a file, except executables (associated hammer), text files and some other singular format.
Unfortunately Scalos is a system that does not work well on AROS, to associate a Def_Icon you must use "ScalosFileType," and this tool unfortunately does not work on AROS..
-
the preference program not works on Aros unfortunately indeed (I think I reported that already, the same for menu preferences). But as I already wrote you can edit it on 3.1 and then copy the pref files to X86 (and also of course Aros 68k). They work. I can clearly say that because I have a working Aros 68k distribution based on Scalos. On 68k all works as expected, the problem is X86.
-
Attach your working preference files of AROS 68k here, so I can do some testing on x86
If you are using PeterK's Icon.library, the Def_ paths are different from AROS
On the Latest version PeterK fixed it by creating special Icon.library for AROS 68k
https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=64079&page=169
-
here is the uploaded X86 test version:
https://aros-platform.de/scalos_x86.zip
the filetypes definitions are in env:scalos/filetypes I think, I did not find any different place
-
In ScaloS Preferences you have not installed "ScalosFileType" (you have to copy it into Prefs) and therefore you will never be able to associate anything
I had asked if you could give me the AROS 68k preferences where file associations work !
-
you do not need that... please do one time what I recommend to you
Scalos works perfectly without that file. With that files you can edit it in Scalos prefs but that has nothing to do with the question if scalos works or not
Again the preference file in Prefs do not work. Because of that I do it on 3.1 as already explained several times
you could delete all scalos related files from sys:prefs and Scalos would still work perfectly
@AMIGASYSTEM
BTW do you have a really working scalos environment already? A short time ago that was not the case obviously. I for example do not try to create one distribution supporting different desktops like you seem to try. I did one distribution for Magellan and one for Scalos (68k) and will do only one based on Scalos on X86. Every download is optimized for one desktop.
-
I repeat my posting that was to Deadwood mainly because the discussion now is confusing
@Deadwood
I think I have found another X86 issue on Scalos
if you have a directory without icons (for example image files) and you select Show all then on X86 the files are shown with wrong icons (not the correct def icons) and with snapshot all the wrong icon files are used
the same works on 68k correctly
I use new aros 2019 branch, win hosted version
for checks I have uploaded my own test version
https://aros-platform.de/scalos_x86.zip
-
I think you are confused, probably on OS3 + Scalos it works for you because you use Deficons, delete this file and its preferences and you will see that ScalOS will no longer recognize the files.
Look at my the Screenshot, on my AIAB AfA OS, ScalOS works perfectly and Scalos Filetype also works fine, and all files are associated with the right icon and the right tool.
On AROS this you have to have in order to associate files !
-
no you are confused....
you can download my Scalos 68k distribution from my download page and test it yourself
http://www.aros-platform.de/download.html
I have tested it myself and know what I have seen
-
Here is how Scalos should work on AROS 68k/x86, as you can see Scalos Filetype recognized my Def Icons and assigned tools, To achieve this I configured a mix with Scalos OS3.
-
@OlafS3
Here is what I see with clean installation: 2019 WInHosted + Contrib. Using directory System/Image which has no icons in it. Seems to be working correctly.
-
Here is what I see with clean installation: 2019 WInHosted + Contrib. Using directory System/Image which has no icons in it. Seems to be working correctly.
Uncovered the arcane, if I use some Def_Icon AROS the system finds them assigns the icon to the image, but if I use other icons e.g. DualPNGs, the Def_Icons are ignored, as if they do not exist.
-
@Amigasystem
I use kens icons for def icons
good find... the strange thing on 68k it works correctly, on X86 not
-
The kens icons (DualPNG) do not work, but neither do the Glow icons do OS 3.9 !
-
good find... the strange thing on 68k it works correctly, on X86 not
I noticed that there are datatypes for icons, for PNG there is pngiconobject.datatype, but strangely there is no descriptor :o
I tried the OS3 ones but they didn't work.
This confirms that Scalos like OS3 needs Def_Icon and datatypes to recognize and execute files, I hope no more doubts from your side !
-
good find... the strange thing on 68k it works correctly, on X86 not
No on AROS 68k is the same if you use native AROS 68k Scalos (ISO Contrib AROS 68k)
-
I USE Scalos from contrib
-
I USE Scalos from contrib
what version?
-
If you use the Standard Scalos AROS 68k version, you will have the same problerms as AROS x86, see screenshot.
With Def_Icon AROS native, you get the right icons and tool assigned, but if you use other Icons like Glow Icon, Power Icon or Icon PNG, they will be ignored and therefore not displayed.
On your system you probably mixed OS3 files and settings, so all tests will not match those done with just the AROS tools
-
One more attempt to configure AROS One Scalos, this time with a simple trick I bypassed the saves of the various Scalos preference, and now everything works "unobtrusively.
Def_Icon DualPNGs from AROS One and associated AROS One tools are now recognized.
The trick will probably work with AROS x86 as well.
- Menu Scalos + Menu AROS
- File Type
- Pattern
- Palette
- Pattern
However, the problems of saving Scalos Prefs, graphical artifacts on DualPNG icons, and slow icons in windows on the Workbench remain
-
@deadwood
On AROS x86 the trick used on AROS 68k partially worked, I created a video that shows that Scalos by default already has many associations configured, which use AROS def_icons and their tools.
From the video you will be able to see that if you reset File Types Prefs, all associations and DualPNG def_icon icons on the system are enabled, but then once you save the preference file "deficons.prefs" it will not be recognized when you reopen File Types Prefs.
On AROS x86, I also reconfirm the Scalos prefs problem, on AROS 68k however Scalos Prefs works fine
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SOVluNpxQHuqfFer9UPfrQlneMdnqYB0/view
-
The first thought I had about Scalos was how slow it was, well I thought that it might be due to the AROS RTG driver for uae itself not be as optimized as the AmigaOS one, since even Wanderer isn't the speed deamon one might expect despite being simpler, but having checked directory opus I have to say that I no longer think that to be the case. The thing is I don't remember Scalos being so slow in Amiga either... So what gives?
-
Meanwhile, did you use my config with the 060, JIT, 512 RAM, 512 VRAM?
Scalos like Magellan have always suffered from speed even on Amiga, this has been a known thing forever, the more icons in a window, especially if they are DualPNG, the slower the windows will open.
All this with Workbench, but even with Wanderer it doesn't happen, of course if it improved the Graphics Card support on WinUAE, Wanderer for sure on WinUAE would be as fast as my AfA One OS 3.9.
As you can see from these videos, I have run resource-intensive games on AROS 68k (QUAKE 3) !
https://youtu.be/w6m1gXbpcMM
-
"First make it work, then make it faster..."
-
Meanwhile, did you use my config with the 060, JIT, 512 RAM, 512 VRAM?
I have used the very same system with all of them, so I could compare them. But yes, they are all beefed up! :)
Scalos like Magellan have always suffered from speed even on Amiga, this has been a known thing forever, the more icons in a window, especially if they are DualPNG, the slower the windows will open.
It makes sense
All this with Workbench, but even with Wanderer it doesn't happen, of course if it improved the Graphics Card support on WinUAE, Wanderer for sure on WinUAE would be as fast as my AfA One OS 3.9.
As you can see from these videos, I have run resource-intensive games on AROS 68k (QUAKE 3) !
I don't the doubt of virtual 68k, WinUAE is quite a beast and the best at emulating, my doubt was if somehow it had to do with the gfx drivers. BTW have you tried and compare with an amiga build?
"First make it work, then make it faster..."
Noice!
-
. BTW have you tried and compare with an amiga build?
I didn't understand, what are you referring to !
-
We have SCALOS running on AROS -> AROS build, you have SCALOS also running in AMIGA -> AMIGA build.
-
Yes Scalos and Magellan are installed on my AfA One BB4, they are integrated and I only start them for testing !
In this video you can also notice with the 060 JIT the slowness of Scalos and Magellan compared to OS 3.9 BB4
https://youtu.be/RIt6XcGoeJo
-
Yes Scalos and Magellan are installed on my AfA One BB4, they are integrated and I only start them for testing !
In this video you can also notice with the 060 JIT the slowness of Scalos and Magellan compared to OS 3.9 BB4
https://youtu.be/RIt6XcGoeJo
Thanks for sharing, that's interesting to see
-
this is example of aros vision also using magellan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TD9QpH0QaQ
see the difference to the other video regarding icons
-
Olaf those are "light" icons with few colors, even an Amiga 500 opens fast, to do the test try to put in a folder a hundred DualPNG icons or OS4 icons and then compare it with Wanderer !
If what I say is not credible, I think what PeterK says about Dopus5 is more than credible:
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=1224845&postcount=2
https://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=1495501&postcount=3702
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6TsxadV-4w
this video is with 4.1 icons
we can bombard each other with videos now if you want
and even if icons are faster on wanderer than on magellan (and scalos if problems would be fixed), both desktops are much more powerful than wanderer if preconfigured
regarding the posts from PeteK you mentioned, I have no problems with magellan and also did not see huge amounts of ram vanishing. But i only use it on UAE so I do not want to make judgements. Here it works very stable. Icaros Desktop also uses Magellan on X86.
Of course both need some time to understand it and then preconfigure it, wanderer is there less to understand and to do. But that would be the job of the distribution creator. If you need only a simple software launcher on 3.1 workbench level wanderer is ok too, then scalos and magellan would be a waste because you not use both.
I only reacted at all because you made a video with a strange music more or less making magellan and scalos looking silly. That is from my point of view misleading
-
In your video the icons were stored, this speeds up a lot, as mentioned copy a hundred icons "without storing the location" and then open the folder.
Also as PeterK pointed out, if you try to move a number of icons everything will be slower, besides the RAM you will lose on the way.
Of course everything can be improved, even Wanderer can be improved, I am talking about the problems now with the available versions of Magellan and Scalos, not future ones.
-
In your video the icons were stored, this speeds up a lot, as mentioned copy a hundred icons "without storing the location" and then open the folder.
Also as PeterK pointed out, if you try to move a number of icons everything will be slower, besides the RAM you will lose on the way.
Of course everything can be improved, even Wanderer can be improved, I am talking about the problems now with the available versions of Magellan and Scalos, not future ones.
PeteK BTW talked about Magellan running on AmigaOS with P96 and CybergraphX where obviously is a problem with P96. The posting is not related to Aros
I have dragged icons without having any problem. I will certainly not convince you to use magellan or scalos. Both are a waste if you not use them. Then better stay with wanderer. Magellan and Scalos only make sense if you really invest time in them. Just launching makes zero sense. You then use them zero. But that is certainly known to you.
-
As said I have nothing against Magellan and Scalos, but at the moment I prefer Wanderer for my Distributions because of its simplicity of use, which is very important for first time users on AROS.
Already an experienced Amiga user has a hard time configuring Magellan, let alone a user unfamiliar with Amiga.
Wandere with its "separate" System Apps is much easier to understand and configure, if you then add descriptors and associations you can do the same things as magellan and even more since you can add something of your own.
-
As said I have nothing against Magellan and Scalos, but at the moment I prefer Wanderer for my Distributions because of its simplicity of use, which is very important for first time users on AROS.
Already an experienced Amiga user has a hard time configuring Magellan, let alone a user unfamiliar with Amiga.
Wandere with its "separate" System Apps is much easier to understand and configure, if you then add descriptors and associations you can do the same things as magellan and even more since you can add something of your own.
there is no problem with that if you prefer wanderer and are more familiar with it. Nevertheless magellan is more powerful than what you can do with wanderer (similar would be scalos). You will have problems to convince me of the opposite ;)... for example how do you define filetype specific context menu on wanderer? Possible on both magellan and scalos.
-
A few more functions are there on magellan, but many can be created onWanderer as well, can you give me some examples of things you can't do on Wanderer ?
The file type on Wanderer is the same as Workbench OS 3.9, just install/create a descriptor and all files can be recognized, practically nothing changes from magellan
-
A few more functions are there on magellan, but many can be created onWanderer as well, can you give me some examples of things you can't do on Wanderer ?
The file type on Wanderer is the same as Workbench OS 3.9, just create a descriptor and all files can be recognized, practically nothing changes from magellan
what I wrote is a key element of both modern desktops... that you can define filetypes (I use endings to identify file format) and then define specific context menu if a user rightclick on it. Doubleclick can be defined too, on scalos in def icon and in Magellan in the environment. In Magellan you can also define what happens f.e. if a file is drag and dropped or similar what I never used on aros and also not tested it.
As a simple example, I have predefined converting options for many image and sound files. You can convert koala to iff by rightclicking on file and selecting a option. Most of the work went in that.
On AmigaOS you can only define what happens when you doubleclick on a file (f.e. show a picture with datatype). That is lightyears away from what you can do on scalos or magellan (of course you have to invest time in it).
-
Again for the sake of simplicity, having a single file type manager in my opinion is less functional, if this application fails for some reason, no file type will be recognized, and it will also be difficult to identify who caused the problem.
With descriptors this cannot happen, when a file is not recognized, it will only be a descriptor or datatype that will be the culprit and then based on the extension you will understand where to intervene.
The conversion of music files, archives, images, I did it on Dopus4, but the same procedure can be done on Wanderer, just use a menu manager like "UserMenus"
-
as I understand it you can only define one menu but not individual menues dependent on file formats
-
In your video the icons were stored, this speeds up a lot, as mentioned copy a hundred icons "without storing the location" and then open the folder.
Also as PeterK pointed out, if you try to move a number of icons everything will be slower, besides the RAM you will lose on the way.
Of course everything can be improved, even Wanderer can be improved, I am talking about the problems now with the available versions of Magellan and Scalos, not future ones.
PeteK BTW talked about Magellan running on AmigaOS with P96 and CybergraphX where obviously is a problem with P96. The posting is not related to Aros
I have dragged icons without having any problem. I will certainly not convince you to use magellan or scalos. Both are a waste if you not use them. Then better stay with wanderer. Magellan and Scalos only make sense if you really invest time in them. Just launching makes zero sense. You then use them zero. But that is certainly known to you.
This is how I see the situation with the workbench replacements: Wanderer, Magellan & Scalos. Wanderer is relatively fast at what it does but it doesn't do much. The development of Wanderer isn't finished. Icon View Mode is more mature. Name View Mode works but it doesn't do anything useful and it looks very primitive and incomplete.
But there are a few features I like about Wanderer. Any drawer location can be the start location to open a new shell. Use Wanderer to navigate to a location then open a shell at that location without a bunch of typing. Also the automatic cleanup of icons and the immediate redraw when icons change is a nice feature. But Wanderer needs work.
Magellan and Scalos have many more advanced features and both can be configured to be be very useful but that requires skill and some effort. The problem is that both Magellan and Scalos weren't developed originally for use with AROS. Because of that there some problems (both known and yet to be discovered) and incompatibilities that need to be addressed to make Magellan and Scalos more useful and efficient. No one wants a system freeze or crash.
I especially like the full features of Name View for Magellan. I have enjoyed using it many, many times with no complaints. But the icons at the top of the listers could be improved. I also remember using Scalos on AIAB (Amiga in a Box). I recall that it seemed very easy and fun to use it.
With more development all these workbench replacements could be greatly improved making them more stable and more useful and user friendly. But that takes a lot of work.
-
If you are referring to Descriptors, these allow by extension, or by internal file acronym to recognize a file, to this descriptor you associate a Def_icon with the tool you want to use.
Magellan does the same thing, it uses an application similar to OS 3.9's "DeIcon Preferences" (see screenshot), which is basically a kind of set of Descriptors, even more comprehensive than Magellan's, again you can associate by file extension or by acronym.
-
But there are a few features I like about Wanderer. Any drawer location can be the start location to open a new shell. Use Wanderer to navigate to a location then open a shell at that location without a bunch of typing. Also the automatic cleanup of icons and the immediate redraw when icons change is a nice feature. But Wanderer needs work.
Yes there are also other simple things with wanderer such as automatic icon arrangement, the ability to choose to move or copy an icon, and many other things
Magellan and Scalos have many more advanced features and both can be configured to be be very useful but that requires skill and some effort. The problem is that both Magellan and Scalos weren't developed originally for use with AROS. Because of that there some problems (both known and yet to be discovered) and incompatibilities that need to be addressed to make Magellan and Scalos more useful and efficient. No one wants a system freeze or crash.
And this is what I have written several times, one of the reasons for the conflicts and gurus is that Scalos or Magellan have their own libraries and PlugIns, while OS3/AROS Apps at many cases will look for the libraries by Wanderer.
-
Again for the sake of simplicity, having a single file type manager in my opinion is less functional, if this application fails for some reason, no file type will be recognized, and it will also be difficult to identify who caused the problem.
With descriptors this cannot happen, when a file is not recognized, it will only be a descriptor or datatype that will be the culprit and then based on the extension you will understand where to intervene.
The conversion of music files, archives, images, I did it on Dopus4, but the same procedure can be done on Wanderer, just use a menu manager like "UserMenus"
While it's true that using filetype descriptors is independent of the workbench replacement being used we are actually looking at two ways of doing the same thing - classic vs modern. File descriptors and especially datatype descriptors are the classic way of doing file associations. The icon attributes (deftools) are used to associate a file with a specific application.
For Magellan and perhaps Scalos file associations are done more directly in a dedicated prefs application which has its advantages. We can do everything at once without fiddling with dozens of separate file descriptors. Then that same centralized file associations system can be used for "Open With" much like the icon deftools. It's a modern approach.
However it would be beneficial to have a similar application that uses the Magellan method to easily create the file descriptors including datatype descriptors. At the moment we have to manually edit these descriptors or edit a descriptor source file and use specialized tools to create the descriptors. Having a file descriptor editor would be nice. It would make things much more user friendly.
-
You would just bring to AROS "Deficon Preferences," what I showed in the screenshot, we are talking about a tool that also uses OS 4.1.
While instead Magellan is similar to Ambient on MOS, which then Ambient is nothing but a kind of modern version of magellan.
-
In your video the icons were stored, this speeds up a lot, as mentioned copy a hundred icons "without storing the location" and then open the folder.
Also as PeterK pointed out, if you try to move a number of icons everything will be slower, besides the RAM you will lose on the way.
Why do you spread false information?
From the first link:
"That's your opinion, but I still prefer to use DOpus 4.17pre21 on WB 3.9. Ok, it don't has all of the features of DOpus5, but more important, it has non of the bugs of DOpus5. And 5.9x is even worse than 5.82! No thanks.
From the second:
"Retrofan, I hope that you know that the "Custom dragging routines" of DOpus 5.82 always had a huge memory leak. You can lose some MB if you select a couple of icons and just drag them around. Your free memory can disappear rapidly and completely in a few seconds. This did only happen with P96, not with CGX.
But I've fixed that bug in the DOpus5 dragging routines and put my DOpus 5.83 into the bonus drawer of my Aminet package. Reading my IconLib.guide can be useful sometimes.
I've no idea how good or bad DOpus5 works on an OS 3.2 system. I would not expect or rely on that the 3.2 developers even tried to care about DOpus5 at all."
He never talked about slowness!
He only talked about bugs and a memory leak which he already fixed.
Of course everything can be improved, even Wanderer can be improved, I am talking about the problems now with the available versions of Magellan and Scalos, not future ones.
Those problems can be solved, as I've already explained on the other thread: either being bugs or missing features.
Whereas Wanderer lacks TONs of features and for some of them you need to use external applications to try to mitigate the situation.
Scalos and DOpus/Magellan, on the other hand, already offer TONs of features out-of-the-box...
-
This is how I see the situation with the workbench replacements: Wanderer, Magellan & Scalos. Wanderer is relatively fast at what it does but it doesn't do much. The development of Wanderer isn't finished. Icon View Mode is more mature. Name View Mode works but it doesn't do anything useful and it looks very primitive and incomplete.
But there are a few features I like about Wanderer. Any drawer location can be the start location to open a new shell. Use Wanderer to navigate to a location then open a shell at that location without a bunch of typing. Also the automatic cleanup of icons and the immediate redraw when icons change is a nice feature. But Wanderer needs work.
Magellan and Scalos have many more advanced features and both can be configured to be be very useful but that requires skill and some effort. The problem is that both Magellan and Scalos weren't developed originally for use with AROS. Because of that there some problems (both known and yet to be discovered) and incompatibilities that need to be addressed to make Magellan and Scalos more useful and efficient. No one wants a system freeze or crash.
I especially like the full features of Name View for Magellan. I have enjoyed using it many, many times with no complaints. But the icons at the top of the listers could be improved. I also remember using Scalos on AIAB (Amiga in a Box). I recall that it seemed very easy and fun to use it.
With more development all these workbench replacements could be greatly improved making them more stable and more useful and user friendly. But that takes a lot of work.
From a developer PoV, do you prefer to add the few missing features from Wanderer to Scalos/Magellan, or the viceversa (the massive missing features from them to Wanderer)?
From a user PoV, do you prefer the limited experience of Wanderer or the better one offered by Scalos/Magellan? Considered that the system was already fully pre-configured, of course.
To me those are rhetorical questions: IMO doesn't make sense to invest on Wanderer on 2023, since a better user experience could be given to the users and we aren't limited anymore with the available CPUs and/or memory.
If users prefer the "classic" experience this can also be configured.
But if they want to use the old machines, well, then just use the original o.s.: modernity isn't something which is appealing to them...
-
@cdimauro
Much as I'd like the comment about Scalos Development this topic seems so limited and I don't want to use up this thread for discussion about other things.
So I will start a new topic about Workbench Replacements and AROS development in general. Then I can answer these questions and more.
-
at eastern I have invested some time in testing scalos. I had one problem that files without icons are not connected to the correct def files. After some testing it is obvious that newicon files work as def files in scalos. Propably the internal icon mechanism is old so it not works with newer ones. But at least this is a starting point for me again
-
I had one problem that files without icons are not connected to the correct def files.
This depends on the descriptor settings, you have to set up recognition through by the acronym "MATCH" and no by extension.
All files even without icons will be recognized by Scalos FileType, Scalos "uses Def_Icons Wanderer/Workbench impostations, you can see it from my screnshot.
Scalos recognized and uses my def_Icons, others like for example the file "Enigma" which is MP3 is not well configured on "Scalos FileType", unfortunately you can't store it because "Scalos FileType" doesn't work and goes to Guru if you try to save !
(https://ae.amigalife.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=927.0;attach=4751;image)
-
@Deadwood I am aware of your priorities and that Scalos is not on top. But perhaps it is easy to fix for you. Scalos works quiet well on 68k already. There is only one thing I miss... the shortkeys not work. As far as I can remember that affected all aros versions. If that is not too much work for you it would be great if you could look at it.