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Amiwell · 3683

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AMIGASYSTEM

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Reply #15 on: July 23, 2023, 11:28:58 AM
I do not doubt the great work, and certainly worth even more than 5000 Euro, what I do not conceive "also happens with other software", why on other platforms develop for free, while on AROS no!


miker1264

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Reply #16 on: July 23, 2023, 11:33:31 AM
What are the prospects for modernizing Odyssey to make it fast, efficient and compatible with 99% of modern websites?

Maybe collect a large bounty for that type of project. That seems more likely rather than porting an entirely new one.

Maybe we could collect up to 2,000 Euros in about 3 months for that huge task. Even if it takes 6 months to gather together the bounty money from contributions it would be well worth it to have a more modern browser that is compatible with AROS.

It's like buying a car. Why spend 5,000 on a new one when we can spend 2,000 on a used one that already works?  8)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2023, 11:42:55 AM by miker1264 »


deadwood

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Reply #17 on: July 23, 2023, 11:56:48 AM
Quote from: AMIGASYSTEM on July 23, 2023, 11:28:58 AM
I do not doubt the great work, and certainly worth even more than 5000 Euro, what I do not conceive "also happens with other software", why on other platforms develop for free, while on AROS no!

Because he gets no "fun/enjoyment" from seeing Wayfarer on AROS while he gets it from seeing it on MorphOS. "Fun/enjoyment" is currency more potent than Euros in many cases for open source developers.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2023, 12:30:32 PM by deadwood »


Amiwell

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Reply #18 on: July 23, 2023, 12:10:49 PM
There is a lot of software for AROS that has been released without any request for money, personally I made explicit requests upon donation but it seems to me that many open software in the mainstream are sponsored by large companies


AMIGASYSTEM

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Reply #19 on: July 23, 2023, 12:33:15 PM
Quote from: deadwood on July 23, 2023, 11:56:48 AM

Because he gets no "fun/enjoyment" from seeing Wayfarer on AROS while he gets it from seeing it on MorphOS. "Fun/enjoyment" is current more potent than Euros in many cases for open source developers.

Yes this is true, MorphOS is highly esteemed, but in my opinion AROS has much more potential since it can work anywhere, and this could be a greater stimulus for developers, considering also that the old MACs to install MOS to be scarce and too old.



Amiwell

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Reply #20 on: July 23, 2023, 01:09:15 PM
even MorphOS users pay for something remember the bounty for the new 3D system


ntromans

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Reply #21 on: July 23, 2023, 03:13:38 PM
Also of course you have to pay for a licence for every MorphOS machne you want ot run on.

I bought an iSight iMac and MorphOS licence just to run Wayfarer. It is pretty compatable with most sites (not perfect, though), but it's really slow even on a G5. Not of course a fault of the software (although there is no Javascript JIT due to it being PPC), but rather the ancient Mac its running on. The vast majority f the time I sitck with OWB unlesss a site is completely unusable for it. Saying that, if there was a fund to get it ported I'd contribute, but 5000 is a big number. Maybe if it could be compiled also for 68k AROS, then the classic users with Vampires and (once AROS 68k runs on it) PiStorms might get interested...

Cheers,
Nigel.

P.S. as per Miker's post below, I'd equally happily donate towards an updated OWB :-)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2023, 06:05:40 PM by ntromans »


miker1264

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Reply #22 on: July 23, 2023, 04:11:36 PM
Odyssey already works for AROS. If we could somehow support the making of a modernized version of Odyssey maybe that would be a better use of our time, efforts & resources. Maybe Odyssey could be better & much faster than Wayfarer.

One thing seems to be the speed & resource requirements of Wayfarer. Even if we somehow managed to collect 5,000 Euros for the bounty what would ensure that the AROS version would be fast enough & versatile enough to run on older or lower-spec computer hardware that AROS supports. Why not improve Odyssey for AROS? It already works.

It may be a lot of work so maybe we could collect funds to improve Odyssey so that it would be money well spent.  8)


jPV

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Reply #23 on: July 24, 2023, 02:05:31 AM
Quote from: miker1264 on July 23, 2023, 04:11:36 PM
Odyssey already works for AROS. If we could somehow support the making of a modernized version of Odyssey maybe that would be a better use of our time, efforts & resources. Maybe Odyssey could be better & much faster than Wayfarer.

AFAIK updating Odyssey's engine (WebKit) would be a tedious task, because it's not that isolated from the other code etc. This is why Wayfarer was born in the first place, because it was easier to design and write a whole new browser instead of trying to sync Odyssey with newer engines. Updating Wayfarer with new engines is relatively easy and it can keep up with the mainstream in that regard.


Quote
One thing seems to be the speed & resource requirements of Wayfarer. Even if we somehow managed to collect 5,000 Euros for the bounty what would ensure that the AROS version would be fast enough & versatile enough to run on older or lower-spec computer hardware that AROS supports. Why not improve Odyssey for AROS? It already works.

I run Wayfarer daily on Mac mini 1.5GHz with 1GB memory, and I have never run out of memory with it. With Odyssey I ran out of memory once a day, so Wayfarer is much better in that regard and doesn't leak memory like Odyssey does. Speed is a bit relative, in my feelings Wayfarer loads some pages faster than Odyssey, and some are other way around. Odyssey seems to scroll a bit faster. In any case Odyssey and its ancient engine doesn't handle half of javascript code on pages and it makes it faster in some situations, but then pages may fail to work. Wayfarer has much better compatibility in cost of performance, because it handles most of the code in pages. If you could get Odyssey's engine updated and more compatible, it would also get slower.

After I moved on Wayfarer, I haven't used Odyssey at all in practise. I've occasionally tried it, but it seems to get worse and worse with pages. Wayfarer is fast enough for me even with the Mac mini I'm using as a daily driver and I haven't missed Odyssey at all. By default Wayfarer writes a lot into a disk cache and that might slow down it if you don't have an SSD driver or so, but I have disabled the disk cache completely and even softlinked the whole cache directory in the Ram Disk, which I believe makes it faster in use.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2023, 02:15:21 AM by jPV »


Amiwell

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Reply #24 on: July 24, 2023, 03:09:13 AM
I seem to have understood that an update of Odyssey made by an experienced programmer is possible you currently works certain on some sites you can not enter but still its operation is acceptable


Amiwell

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Reply #25 on: July 24, 2023, 03:24:52 AM
anyway I'm waiting for news about Wayfarer and I'm thinking of making the investment at the moment and everything on the probable Odyssey even if on some sites it doesn't work at the moment it meets my needs for money I have to wait about a month then I'll think about what to do


LouPai

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Reply #26 on: July 24, 2023, 06:23:33 PM
Consider the inquiry resolved,

I look forward to AmiWell's Arowser WebKit!

Them whom say it can't be done ought not interrupt those doing it.

Amiwell

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Reply #27 on: July 25, 2023, 12:06:31 AM
I will focus on other as I said previously I am in contact with some programmers and I make donations 5000 euros are too many even for me if you want to open a bounty so everyone contributes well I do not add anything else


ASiegel

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Reply #28 on: August 10, 2023, 02:35:43 AM
Quote from: deadwood on July 23, 2023, 11:21:19 AM
Yup, I can relate to this. If he needs to do something that does not interest him (AROS), then he needs another incentive for work. Also based on my experience with Odyssey, it is going to be far from straightforward re-compilation, so 5000 euro sounds like a bargain to me. Wish I had 5k free cash to sponsor that :)
We would really need to know more details in order to evaluate the feasibility of the idea.

For instance, if the offer was to deliver a working binary of a modern browser for this amount, I completely agree. Total bargain. Public fundraising may be an option.

However, if the offer was only for source code access and some assistance, I do not think this would be worth the investment as it may not lead to anything.


Amiwell

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Reply #29 on: August 10, 2023, 08:17:23 AM
The size of the project is quite large even in economic terms if I have to intervene alone I have to think about it

king regards


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