AROS Vanilla x86-64

[miker1264]

My testing environment is just about ready for x86-64 for ABIv11 software & system files.

I'm still working on the icons & I have to Refresh my ABIv11 Build System to add software to test.

[Amiwell]

My testing environment is just about ready for x86-64 for ABIv11 software & system files.

I'm still working on the icons & I have to Refresh my ABIv11 Build System to add software to test.

Up!

[Amiwell]

Miker I fixed the iso of Tiny Aros so that you can use it in VM

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1f6Z3ls5VSEu50KCLL039noi5nZhI5blB/view?usp=sharing

[miker1264]

Miker I fixed the iso of Tiny Aros so that you can use it in VM

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1f6Z3ls5VSEu50KCLL039noi5nZhI5blB/view?usp=sharing

@Amiwell

Thank you. I will download it and give it a try. 

The  benefit to me of distributions like TinyAros is that they have a very small download size.

Especially since I have multiple build systems in VMWare & multiple test systems in VirtualBox then of course distro size is important.

I have a 1TB SSD as my primary drive on my programming laptop. The drive is nearly full of mostly AROS or Amiga related data. I need to install the new 2TB SSD I bought.

Thanks again,

Mike R.

[miker1264]

We must realize that AROS is NOT Amiga. Although they both have some similar features and structure and of course many Amiga programs run on AROS 68k they are not the same. I like to say "AROS has one foot in the past with an eye towards the future". We have Classic and Modern ways of accomplishing the same tasks.

In that sense we have to look to the future to help improve AROS. It can be so much more than just a hobby OS. We have the horsepower with modern CPU's and super fast Memory as well as the potential of Powerful Graphics. Combined with the Speed of Solid State Drives there's no theoretical reason why AROS can't be fast and efficient.

Much of what AROS lacks has to do with software and applications. I'm not just talking about Office Apps, Email Clients and Web Browsers. Many applications that we use had their start on 30-year old computer systems. Classic Amiga Software seems antiquated and lacking in places.

Other than lacking and the underlying infrastructure there's no reason AROS can't enjoy having fast Web Browsers. We just don't have them. There are many Modern features that seem to be missing. I will just mention a few of them.

Rather than having a handmade or cartoonish look AROS should have colorful high quality icons and window themes. The eye candy attracts new users. Although we have Icon Tooltypes and Datatype Descriptors why don't we have cohesive system-wide file associations. Each file could have it's own descriptor that identifies it and the system "knows" what the default tool is that is associated with it . Another component is a working Package Manager.That would include tracking installed library versions. We have some of that but it could be much more useful.

Workspace that IcarosDesktop was using is a great idea to keep important user files in a central location. The "Extras" drawer has also become a good add-on location for miscellaneous user files and useful programs.

Although AROS has roots in the Amiga world of the past we shouldn't be afraid to innovate. The Classic and Modern features can co-exist to make AROS in all it's flavors better for everyone.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Especially since I have multiple build systems in VMWare & multiple test systems in VirtualBox then of course distro size is important.

This is true, but if you have to have the complete Development package (600 MB or so), the Operating System and a few system applications, plus space for program installations to test, here you need at least a 2GB Hardisk.

Saving on AROS which is our system of choice I don't find fair, my AROS One x86 complete with almost all the most common existing Applications for AROS, including many games is only 3GB.

Much of what AROS lacks has to do with software and applications. I'm not just talking about Office Apps, Email Clients and Web Browsers. Many applications that we use had their start on 30-year old computer systems. Classic Amiga Software seems antiquated and lacking in places.

I agree, native programs are needed on AROS that can develop compatible data on other platforms as well, AMiGA softtware belongs to the past and nostalgic people who do not care about the future and priogresses on AROS.

Rather than having a handmade or cartoonish look AROS should have colorful high quality icons and window themes. The eye candy attracts new users. Although we have Icon Tooltypes and Datatype Descriptors why don't we have cohesive system-wide file associations. Each file could have it's own descriptor that identifies it and the system "knows" what the default tool is that is associated with it . Another component is a working Package Manager.That would include tracking installed library versions. We have some of that but it could be much more useful.

Correct, that's what I set out to do when I started ola my Distro, create an old style Distro, with different sized icons and old style, or have ugly windows with lots of graphic artifacts, for those approaching AROS it will only be able to make tenderness and then the whole thing will be trashed

[Amiwell]

Miker I fixed the iso of Tiny Aros so that you can use it in VM

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1f6Z3ls5VSEu50KCLL039noi5nZhI5blB/view?usp=sharing

@Amiwell

Thank you. I will download it and give it a try. 

The  benefit to me of distributions like TinyAros is that they have a very small download size.

Especially since I have multiple build systems in VMWare & multiple test systems in VirtualBox then of course distro size is important.

I have a 1TB SSD as my primary drive on my programming laptop. The drive is nearly full of mostly AROS or Amiga related data. I need to install the new 2TB SSD I bought.

Thanks again,

Mike R.

Thank you Miker

[cdimauro]

We must realize that AROS is NOT Amiga. Although they both have some similar features and structure and of course many Amiga programs run on AROS 68k they are not the same. I like to say "AROS has one foot in the past with an eye towards the future". We have Classic and Modern ways of accomplishing the same tasks.

In that sense we have to look to the future to help improve AROS. It can be so much more than just a hobby OS. We have the horsepower with modern CPU's and super fast Memory as well as the potential of Powerful Graphics. Combined with the Speed of Solid State Drives there's no theoretical reason why AROS can't be fast and efficient.

Much of what AROS lacks has to do with software and applications. I'm not just talking about Office Apps, Email Clients and Web Browsers. Many applications that we use had their start on 30-year old computer systems. Classic Amiga Software seems antiquated and lacking in places.

Other than lacking and the underlying infrastructure there's no reason AROS can't enjoy having fast Web Browsers. We just don't have them. There are many Modern features that seem to be missing.

First you need modern development tools (compilers, libraries, IDEs), to better support developers.


Only after that you can think about adding modern features.

[miker1264]

AMIGASYSTEM & Amiwell & everyone else who maintain AROS Distros you're doing an amazing job to help AROS.

For me large distros of 3.5GB are not practical. Just like IcarosDesktop has a full version & a lite version, at times the lite version is better. I only have 5GB of space left on my primary drive.

I sometimes use IcarosDesktop x86 for testing. Originally I had AROS Hosted on Windows. Then I switched to AROS Hosted on Ubuntu Linux. But therein is the problem. I can't do much testing because Magellan, for whatever reason, is highly unstable in Hosted Mode. So instead I have AROS One x86 installed Native Mode in VirtualBox. By comparison saving the virtual machine for Ubuntu takes 1 or 2 minutes which seems like a long time. AROS One x86 takes only 5 seconds to completely shut down. Start up is quick too.

I also have a newer version of AROS One x86 installed natively on my Mini PC that uses an Intel Atom CPU. To my great surprise every peripheral device, USB floppy, CD-ROM, Zip Drives, it all just works! That's a good user experience.

AROS Vanilla is not a full distro. It is a recent Nightly Build or more recent package release of core system file will high quality icons, colorful window themes and an extras add-on. It has an Extras drawer with a small selection of software. It also has a Workspace to store documents, pictures, music.

Agreed. Having good programming tools including IDE's is necessary for development. Murks is a good idea. Gcc in the shell is also good. I also use AmiDevCPP as an IDE.

[cdimauro]

Then I think that a distro only for developers / testing would be a Good Thing to have.
Something which is slimmer than AROS One x86, but with all relevant tools needed for developers.
Regarding the "desktop manager", Wanderer is very simple but also very limited. Magellan / Directory Opus is the opposite: a monster (of complexity as well). Maybe Scalos could fit in the middle.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

. I can't do much testing because Magellan, for whatever reason, is highly unstable in Hosted Mode. So instead I have AROS One x86 installed Native Mode in VirtualBox. By comparison saving the virtual machine for Ubuntu takes 1 or 2 minutes which seems like a long time. AROS One x86 takes only 5 seconds to completely shut down. Start up is quick too.

I also have a newer version of AROS One x86 installed natively on my Mini PC that uses an Intel Atom CPU. To my great surprise every peripheral device, USB floppy, CD-ROM, Zip Drives, it all just works! That's a good user experience.

Meanwhile thank you for preferring AROS One on your PCs, I recommend to use it on VM as well, in fact the systemsLinux on VM are very slow to boot, ditto to exit.

AROS on the other hand is very fast, in a few seconds you aviate and close the operating system, Ditto for AROS 68k, with WinUAE AROS 68k boots in very few seconds. closing is immediate.

All of this speeds up a lot of testing that on hosted Linux to do the same thing (dozens of reboots) would take you a day.

AROS One was created to facilitate this, every file is recognized by the system, and this saves you a lot of time in file testing.

Now I am doing a little modification for text files, unfortunately no Text Editor on AROS allows dragging and dropping files, except for "NoWinED", too bad that on first startup the no,i of the keys get obscured, on solves it just by enlarging the GUI.

To have more speed, now I decided that each text file, once clicked opens directly with "Editor", very convenient to edit startup, config file etc..

[AMIGASYSTEM]

@cdimauro

I would say that Magellan is just a Monster and that's it, both on OS3 and AROS, Magelln "which I know well" has always been a foreign body on Amiga, ditto on AROS, the user gets lost in the meanders, nothing is "Amigoso", in fact very few people use it.

Wander which then is nothing more than a Workbench, is so easy and intuitable that even a child can use it, it is not true that it cannot give what Magellan offers, at some junctures it is even better organized, see the many system preferences.
Magellan like Ambient on MOS (its descendant) has its Prefs on one GUI, this means that one problem involves the other preferences as well.

If you have never used AROS One, I suggest you try it, then maybe you will appreciate Wanderer more.

--- Italiano ----

Direi che Magellan è solo un Mostro e basta, sia su OS3 che AROS, Magelln "che conosco bene" è sempre stato un corpo estraneo su Amiga, idem su AROS, l'utente si perde nei meandri, nulla è "Amigoso", infatti sono veramente in pochi ad utilizzarlo.

Wander che poi altro non è che un Workbench, è talmente facile e intuibile che anche un bambino può utilizzarlo, è non è vero che non può dare quello che offre Magellan, in alcuni frangenti è pure meglio organizzato, vedi le tante preferenze del sistema.
Magellan come Ambient su MOS (suo discendente) ha le sue Prefs su una sola GUI, questo significa che un solo problema coinvolge anche le altre preferenze.

Se non lo hai mai usato AROS One, ti consiglio di provarlo, poi magari apprezzerai di più Wanderer.

[cdimauro]

@cdimauro

I would say that Magellan is just a Monster and that's it, both on OS3 and AROS, Magelln "which I know well" has always been a foreign body on Amiga, ditto on AROS, the user gets lost in the meanders, nothing is "Amigoso", in fact very few people use it.

Wander which then is nothing more than a Workbench, is so easy and intuitable that even a child can use it, it is not true that it cannot give what Magellan offers, at some junctures it is even better organized, see the many system preferences.
Magellan like Ambient on MOS (its descendant) has its Prefs on one GUI, this means that one problem involves the other preferences as well.

If you have never used AROS One, I suggest you try it, then maybe you will appreciate Wanderer more.

Wanderer is the only one which I'm using and I appreciate.


I haven't found Directory Opus / Magellan comfortable since the Amiga days.


However I'm looking forward for Scalos, which actually looks like the best of the two: it works and feels like the original Workbench but it has a lot of new features and customization like Magellan. That's why I'm keeping an eye on deadwood's progresses on Scalos (I also like the idea to have a minimal Linux distro which has a full "Amiga o.s. / AROS" GUI / user interface).


Anyway, I was thinking that for developers would also be better to use a cross-development environment on the host o.s.. Something like the VisualStudioCode extension that an Amiga fan created for 68K development, which is very productive.

P.S. Actually I have no time to thinker with AROS. I'll try AROS One x86 when I've some time to relax. I really like the work that you're doing with this nice distro.

[miker1264]

@cdimauro

I agree that a slimmed down "lite" versions for developers with the necessary development tools would be a good idea.
At minimum we would need gcc at the command line, a working & maybe improved version of Murks with some extra features.
Text editors that support syntax highlighting & maybe code completion is also a nice addition. Scintilla based editors are a good starting point.

@AMIGASYSTEM
Magellan has some nice features but it is a large package to deal with. I don't even have the ability to re-compile Magellan. There is a dedicated team for that.
Wanderer on the other hand is quick and easy to use. It is very lean though, lacking many features that are included with Magellan. I especially like "Smart Read" for Magellan which allows reading any file in binary to see the hexadecimal. But I have figured out a way to get Wanderer to do that. Add a menu item to Read Binary. Copy the file to be read into a temp file beginning with "BIN:" but don't add a file extension. Then Wanderer sends the temp filename to an external application (MultiView). But MultiView & the Datatypes system can't recognize the file type so by default it displays hexadecimal. In the future maybe I can figure out how to actually do it correctly but a workaround is good till then.

As far as distros I appreciate all the work that has gone into AROS One x86 as far as file descriptors and window themes, and all the other enhancements. It would be nice if we had some PDF Guides or other detailed documentation about how to make icons & window themes & how to use scripts to install them with some samples. If we could use these enhancements on other distros that would be great. As for custom icons I have found an icon style that I will make part of AROS Vanilla. Though other people may prefer a different style I prefer the IcarosDesktop style of DualPNG Glow Icon. The custom icons that I produce will all be drop-in replacements for IcarosDesktop icons. They will be 46x46 with an image area of 38x38 which leaves 4 pixels on each edge for the gow border on the second image. Other icons that only have one image or that are 48x48 are not suitable for my needs. Besides they wouldn't be compatible with IcarosDesktop. All my icon tools are designed for DualPNG Glow Icons that have two images & the second images has a standard glow border.

So I have chosen to use that style. I have been trying to come up with a cohesive methodology for making icons. I believe I'm almost there. I'm using what I call a "Tile" icon which is 46x46 as described above. It consists of a Squared Icon, usually white but it can be any color, that acts like a button. The Tile has images inserted that can represent whatever the icon is associated with. So a Tile Icon can be used for any icon type that AROS can display such as Tool, Project, Disk, Drawer, etc. All the icons in System: are Tiles. The icons on Workbench Screen that are not Disk Icons are Tile Icons. For third part directories and other directories a simple Folder Icon will be used. The Folder Icon though can only be used for directories (drawers). I prefer to use Folder Icons instead of Drawers because many users coming from Windows or Linux or even Mac OS X will recognize them for what they are. I have already made several icons but I still have many hundreds more to go. They will be available for anyone to use for their own needs when they are all finished.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

miker "Read" and "Smart Read" also exist on Dopus4, they are internal commands same as magellan.

Inpltre on AROS x86 there is the very good ZAPHOT Hex Editor where you can also easily edit a file, also for the same purpose there is also "HX2", you can find them both on AROS One, folder "Tools", ZAPHOT is already set on Dopus4, see screenshot.

For icon creation I use IconEditor (it exists for both AROS and OS3 and OS4), very simple, you can extract the two images from a DualPNG Icon, you can reduce, add effects and much more all in a simple and intuitive way

For Window Themes you don't need any tutorial, you just need to know how to use a Graphic Editor and modify an existing Theme, of course you have to respect the sizes, the positions lle images and a lot of pasienza to fix the various anomalies, I then am finicky, I intervene even for a single pixel out of place.

For the scripts just look at them, they are very simple, just a few strings, then you reuse the same script by changing only the filename to use.

If you tell me which script is not clear to you, I'll see if I can explain it in simple words and maybe add it in the AROS One manual.