AROS World Exec
General => General Chat => Topic started by: AMIGASYSTEM on August 09, 2022, 03:02:19 PM
-
On wikibooks this Montlist is listed:
How to mount some device or directory (for example a dvd-drive) as a drive under aros hosted?
Add this to Devs/Mountlist
WORK:
FileSystem = emul.handler
Device = WORK:/home/mazze/arosdev
LowCyl = 0
HighCyl = 0
Surfaces = 1
BlocksPerTrack = 1
DOSType = 0x454D5500
Activate = 1
- Is this mountlist also suitable for USB-Stick ?
- where do i find the device "arosdev" ?
-
A few notes:
1) The mountlist as linked is one that is/was used for linux hosted
2) You can not mount host devices in a direct manner. It is always "going through" emul.handler.
- Is this mountlist also suitable for USB-Stick ?
Whenever you insert a USB pendirve the host OS will have access to it. If it does then you can use the paths inside a mountlist (device parameter) in order to access the contents on the USB penddrive.
- where do i find the device "arosdev" ?
The device part in the mountlist contains two parts:
1) "WORK:" (*)
This is the name of the device as it appears in AROS
2) /home/mazze/arosdev
In this particular case, this is the path to mazze's home directory (linux style) where he created another directory named arosdev.
(*) but TBH, i am not 100% sure if the colon as mentioned in the first part actually "belongs" to the first part or that it is just used as a separator token (I would have to look into the source-code for that).
-
Whenever you insert a USB pendirve the host OS will have access to it. If it does then you can use the paths inside a mountlist (device parameter) in order to access the contents on the USB penddrive.
From the translation it doesn't help me to understand, on EasyPeasy I can see and use the USB-Stick quietly, see screenshot, so if I understand correctly I should create a Mountlist, but I don't know the data to enter in the Mountlist, a practical example would help me to understand better.
-
From the translation it doesn't help me to understand,
Sorry about that but it is indeed the nuance that is important here.
on EasyPeasy I can see and use the USB-Stick quietly, see screenshot, so if I understand correctly I should create a Mountlist, but I don't know the data to enter in the Mountlist, a practical example would help me to understand better.
Well.... the mountlist as shown /is/ an actual example :)
I have no idea how easypeasy mounts pendrives. On modern linux there is a single entry point called media. So in my case I can simply do something like::
PEN1:
FileSystem = emul.handler
Device = PEN1:/media/label_of_pendrive/some_directory_on_pendrive/Some_subdirectory
LowCyl = 0
HighCyl = 0
Surfaces = 1
BlocksPerTrack = 1
DOSType = 0x454D5500
Activate = 1
Do note that Linux usually uses case sensitive names.
In case your Linux distribution does not have such a single entry point for added devices such as pendrives then you need to figure out where the Linux distribution 'mount' such devices by default. That is, assuming that things get mounted automatically for you. If not than you can manually create a Linux mountpoint wherever you want to (where you have sufficient read/write/etc access) and use the AROS mountlist device parameter to point to that manual created Linux mountpoint location.
-
Sorry If I add confusion (or stupidity!)
But does scalos have usb support without wanderer running first?
Regarding linux hosted depending on the distro the host mount point may use either UUID or labels.
-
Sorry If I add confusion (or stupidity!)
But does scalos have usb support without wanderer running first?
A bit offtopic for this thread but i'll bite since there is a topic related remark as well :)
I am assuming you are talking about running scalos on a native dedicated AROS machine.
I am not exactly sure what the question refers to, but USB itself is an AROS thing.
If your question is: _should_ scalos automatically mount USB devices (actually not mount as that is AROS doing its thing) by showing an icon when you push in a pendrive... I have honestly no idea. I would prefer that it does. But, does it actually do so ? I have no idea (as I am running hosted).
Regarding linux hosted depending on the distro the host mount point may use either UUID or labels.
Yes indeed. thank you for the hint.
Seeing the screenshot of easypeasy from AMIGASYSTEM, that seems to suggest it is using a dedicated mountpoint somewhere... I just have no idea....
-
Thank you :)
My reasoning behind the post is that I believe AMIGASYSTEM is booting straight into scalos hosted (unless I misunderstood from the scalos thread) and possibly missing something without wanderer.
Now I know. Back to my donuts.. :)
-
aargh this is heat is frying my brain (in case there was any left to begin with) so i completely missed te context of your question GLinx.
In native AROS (not hosted) poseidon takes care of the fact that a USB device is inserted. It'll notify the system and whatever wb replacement is running should take care of this situation.
Running hosted however, is a different situation. So you would have to manually mount a device. If you boot straight into hosted then inserting a USB device (on the host) later will not automatically notify AROS.
Having said that, it should be possible to have a (dedicated) hosted mountpoint that would take care of that (using a hostlib solution that would have to be developed) so that it can keep track of the hosted mounts and then automatically mount the device for AROS. TheAROS mounting itself should be enough to 'notify' the WB (replacement) that a new device is "inserted".
-
Sorry If I add confusion (or stupidity!)
But does scalos have usb support without wanderer running first?
Scalos on "Native PC" and on "Virtual Machines" works the same way as Wanderer, all peripherals CD/DVD USB, HD, but also Network Card etc.. are supported "automatically".
Only on AROS Hosted Linux/Windows does not handle peripherals like CD/DVD, but also Network Card, Sound Card and more.
Scalos even without booting Wanderer still uses almost all AROS system files.
-
I have no idea how easypeasy mounts pendrives. On modern linux there is a single entry point called media. So in my case I can simply do something like::
EasyPeasy behaves like AROS, USB-Stick is automatically mounted at system startup, opuure after insertion
-
EasyPeasy behaves like AROS, USB-Stick is automatically mounted at system startup, opuure after insertion
Even if you do not want to use the Linux host, for sure you are required to learn a few basics about linux.
I can't be bothered attempting to understand an abandoned linux distribution like EasyPeasy from decades ago (i have more than enough trying to understand my own used linux distribution and its particular quirks).
Also on linux you need to mount removable storage.devices, see for an example https://linuxconfig.org/howto-mount-usb-drive-in-linux
But, also linux has 'grown up' in that most distributions have an automount feature that whenever you insert a media in a removable storage device (such as USB/DVD/CD) it will automatically be mounted by the system.
In my distribution there is special mountpoint (directory) called /media and inside that directory all removable storage is automatically inserted whenever you physically insert a media into such a device (hence the name of the mountpoint).
But, where easypeasy mounts its removable devices (without falling back to the systems /dev directory) i have no idea. That is for you to figure out AMIGASYSTEM.
As a sidenote: It is the second time you state that something in Linux "is just there" (pendrive now, the desktop environment/launcher the other), but in fact these kind of things are depending on the distribution that you use. No distribution is alike (although there are usually many similarities) and you have to figure out such things yourelf as other people can not do that for you (unless they install the exact same version of your EasyPeasy distribution)..... There is a reason distributions like Ubuntu exists (as everyone else is using it: which is exactly the reason I don't use it ;) )
-
So, let's start with some basics.... have you installed midnight commander (mc) on your Easy Peasy distribution yet ?
It allows you to browse your linux directories in a proper manner, not using the desktop file manager (that hides all kind of things from you just as explorer on windows does).
-
So, let's start with some basics.... have you installed midnight commander (mc) on your Easy Peasy distribution yet ?
It allows you to browse your linux directories in a proper manner, not using the desktop file manager (that hides all kind of things from you just as explorer on windows does).
Thanks for all the info, now I will study well EasyPeasy's Filemanager seems not to hide anything.
I on Windows have never used the default settings, I always set Windows so that all files (including system files) and all extensions healthy "always visible", Windows hides files for system security for inexperienced users.
I know Ubuntu and other Distros are more advanced but on my PCs they are super slow, EasyPeasy on the other hand is super fast like AROS and then is very intuitive and similar to Amiga/Aros systems.
Conclusion given the Aros Hosted experience, in my opinion the best solution to use ARO, other than native, is Virtual Machine in particular VMWare, basically it is like using Native AROS, but with wide compatibility, it works on all PCs.
-
AFAIK, aros does not automatically detect changes to Linux filesystems. So if you insert a usb media, it will be mounted Linux side, but you'll have to restart aros in order to see it.
-
AFAIK, aros does not automatically detect changes to Linux filesystems. So if you insert a usb media, it will be mounted Linux side, but you'll have to restart aros in order to see it.
If you put files (on the host) to a directory where AROS has a mount then AROS sees this as well.
The device changes on the host are not detected by AROS hosted but can be solved by manually mounting a path to such a (host) device with a AROS mountlist. Of course that only works when the device is actually inserted.
In theory you could make a mountlist in AROS to the /media folder and whenever the host decides to add a device there it should be accessible from within AROS by changing to the corresponding directory.
-
Thanks for all the info, now I will study well EasyPeasy's Filemanager seems not to hide anything.
That can work as well (if you know how to do that).
In such case then you can for example use this article (https://linuxhandbook.com/linux-directory-structure/) to have a better understanding of the directory structure of linux.
Do note however that easypeasy can differ from what is written in that article as every linux distribution does things its own way (it should not but it can). For example, there even is a Linux distribution out there that tries to mimic the Amiga filesystem directory structure (at least it explains how to do such a thing -> imho not advisable).
-
AFAIK, aros does not automatically detect changes to Linux filesystems. So if you insert a usb media, it will be mounted Linux side, but you'll have to restart aros in order to see it.
Paolo does not work, in the Host version "poseidon" is not present, in my opinion you would need a proper filesystem/device mountlist, as I do on WinUAE to mount SD, Pendrive, but also CD/DVD with the old mountlist we used on real Amiga.
-
Paolo does not work, in the Host version "poseidon" is not present, in my opinion you would need a proper filesystem/device mountlist, as I do on WinUAE to mount SD, Pendrive, but also CD/DVD with the old mountlist we used on real Amiga.
Correct.
But, in case your Linux host does have a specific dedicated mountpoint for removable media such as the /media directory then you can mount that automatically by adding a mountlist entry to AROS' mountlist and mount that in the AROS startup sequence (or user-startup) or use any other method that suits you better.
Once that directory is mounted then a simple cd into the right directory will let you access the removable media.
Funny, as I never though of doing it that way.... Never too old to learn ;D
-
https://youtu.be/BsEUUgSfAK0 :o
-
Paolo does not work, in the Host version "poseidon" is not present, in my opinion you would need a proper filesystem/device mountlist, as I do on WinUAE to mount SD, Pendrive, but also CD/DVD with the old mountlist we used on real Amiga.
Correct.
But, in case your Linux host does have a specific dedicated mountpoint for removable media such as the /media directory then you can mount that automatically by adding a mountlist entry to AROS' mountlist and mount that in the AROS startup sequence (or user-startup) or use any other method that suits you better.
Once that directory is mounted then a simple cd into the right directory will let you access the removable media.
Funny, as I never though of doing it that way.... Never too old to learn ;D
Are you sure it will work? I've moved many times to /media on hosted aria, but newer directories dynamically created by the filesystem are not shown unless I'll restart aros.
-
But, in case your Linux host does have a specific dedicated mountpoint for removable media such as the /media directory then you can mount that automatically by adding a mountlist entry to AROS' mountlist and mount that in the AROS startup sequence (or user-startup) or use any other method that suits you better.
EasyPeasy's Pendrive path is what you see in the screenshot (/media/8GB), but the mountlist doesn't work, maybe I'm doing something wrong, can you create me your example mountlist based on this path of mine?
-
But, in case your Linux host does have a specific dedicated mountpoint for removable media such as the /media directory then you can mount that automatically by adding a mountlist entry to AROS' mountlist and mount that in the AROS startup sequence (or user-startup) or use any other method that suits you better.
From AROS how do you access in the linux /media director paths.
-
https://youtu.be/BsEUUgSfAK0 :o
This was what I promised myself to do today, which was to install "poseidon" on AROS Hosted !
Linux side from the video you can't really see what you need to run, consider that I don't know Linux !
In this video you can see the use of "vusbhci.device" ... where can I find it !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JxydrCxiws
-
From AROS how do you access in the linux /media director paths.
I did a test. I've added
MEDIA:
FileSystem = emul-handler
Device = MEDIA:/media
LowCyl = 0
HighCyl = 0
Surfaces = 1
BlocksPerTrack = 1
DOSType = 0x454D5500
Activate = 1
#
to DEVS:Mountlist.
Then I inserted a DVD and started AROS (hosted). I opened a shell and entered "mount media:"
-
Are you sure it will work? I've moved many times to /media on hosted aria, but newer directories dynamically created by the filesystem are not shown unless I'll restart aros.
I just double checked to make sure and for me running hosted on a raspberry pi this indeed works the way as described. I used the same mount-list-entry that mazze used.
I start AROS, mount media: then insert/remove a pendrive on the host. Every time i insert/remove a usb pendrive, the media directory (on the host) gets updated but the same update is shown in AROS for me.
Are you saying that AROS fails to 'notice' the changes in the media directory on your setup ?
I need to add an additional note: I 'remove' a removable device not by just unplugging it but by pressing a special 'eject' button that allows me to select the media to 'eject'. Perhaps that could be reason for behavioural differences (just a guess).
-
From AROS how do you access in the linux /media director paths.
See mazze's answer. I use the same AROS mountlist entry.
Do note that mazze suggests to insert the removable media /before/ starting hosted AROS. That is the proper way to go if you need to make sure things are working. You can always try to do things in another way when you are certain the basic behaviour works.
There is no use in trying to get poseidon to work on hosted. The host OS is responsible for detecting device related changes. That is why having a hosted AROS is so darn handy as it does not depend on the presence/need of different/separate hardware drivers. That way AROS hosted works about anywhere (which is an added bonus).
-
From AROS how do you access in the linux /media director paths.
I did a test. I've added
MEDIA:
FileSystem = emul-handler
Device = MEDIA:/media
LowCyl = 0
HighCyl = 0
Surfaces = 1
BlocksPerTrack = 1
DOSType = 0x454D5500
Activate = 1
#
to DEVS:Mountlist.
Then I inserted a DVD and started AROS (hosted). I opened a shell and entered "mount media:"
Thanks Mazze, I will try your mountlist.
OT:
Some time ago I sent a PM to know if there is a way to close "BoingIconBar" from a Shell, this I needed to change the graphic skin without rebooting the system, the closure needs because the graphic remains in use by the system and cannot be replaced.
-
There is no use in trying to get poseidon to work on hosted. The host OS is responsible for detecting device related changes. That is why having a hosted AROS is so darn handy as it does not depend on the presence/need of different/separate hardware drivers. That way AROS hosted works about anywhere (which is an added bonus).
Thanks to Mazze all "all the Media (CD/DVD/ISO/USB/Floppy)" are now available, but I noticed some slowness when opening a window with icons, from what I saw in the video instead with "poseidon" it seems to be much faster, probably this due to direct access.
-
@AMIGASYSTEM:
I wil not deny that (at the moment) scalos performance is (much) worse than wanderer when compared in the same situation.
deadwood knows this but you are impatient my young padawan ;)
... The first goal is to get scalos working without issues (and unfortunately there are many small issues left, that will take time to get them sorted out) and once that is done, then and only then someone could have a look at speed related improvements.
There are a couple of factors that influence the speed:
- The removable media itself can be slow, or not cached properly on the host.
- scalos does a inspection of the icons and relies on its database to gather (additional user setting) information
- i have no idea how (if at all) scalos currently caches the icon-graphics
- deadwood scalos builds have debug active and that will slow down things a little as well.
There are probably more factors there but these were the first ones that came to mind.
For sure I know that something is wrong with the png graphics (you have seen it as well) and that could influence things as well.
So, please be patient... Rome wasn't build in a day either :D
-
https://youtu.be/BsEUUgSfAK0 (https://youtu.be/BsEUUgSfAK0) :o
Almost missed your post Dizzy :-[
I gather that by default this isn't build (at least not for hosted) as there are no traces of vusbhci whatsoever. I would have no idea how to enable this and/or how to set it up (correctly).
Nice video btw :thumbsup:
-
For hosted it needs poseidon/trident,fat and partition.library (at least for usb sticks) on linux side it needs libusb installed. I'm not sure if the vusbhci.device even builds these days, haven't tried it a long time.
It is really not so much of use in everyday aros use as it only can use a hotplugged usb device. e.g start aros and then plug a usb device. It only uses one hotplugged usb device at a time.
-
Ok thank you Dizzy. That is something i can work with.
Indeed i noticed in the source that it states to support one dedicated port. Better than none at all :D
-
@AMIGASYSTEM:
I wil not deny that (at the moment) scalos performance is (much) worse than wanderer when compared in the same situation.
No, no I was referring to Scalos, but to Wanderer and the slowness of the "USB mounted" volume, with the Poseidon/Trident mounting shown in Dizzy's video the windows and icons are much faster, say "normal" speed.
However now after a restart of Windows the speed has increased, probably too many tests had burdened Windows :D
-
No, no I was referring to Scalos, but to Wanderer and the slowness of the "USB mounted" volume, with the Poseidon/Trident mounting shown in Dizzy's video the windows and icons are much faster, say "normal" speed
Slowness in comparison to what ? your current setup ? (*)
I compared speed on linux hosted (32 bit) between wanderer and scalos (the machine is a 64 bit machine though). Scalos is definitely slower all around. That same speed difference can also be seen when using removable media that is mounted on AROS.
Do you notice the "slowness" to be on a particular machine/hardware combination only ? Does your hardware perhaps share ports or does it perhaps use old USB 1.0 headers ?
(*) or are you trying to say that when you run AROS native on that same hardware (that you now run AROS hosted on) that browsing removable media is faster ?
-
No, sadly my English seems to be misunderstood ...
I am not talking about Scalos/Wanderer difference
But of difference Mounting USB folder/Poseidon/Trident
However as mentioned, after a restart of Windows the speed is good
magorium, what is your native language? maybe if I translate from Italian to your Language, we understand each other better :D
I however your English translated into Italian I understand it well
-
No, sadly my English seems to be misunderstood ...
No problem. If we take that into account then we simply need some more descriptive language.
I am not talking about Scalos/Wanderer difference
Yeah, your previous post made that clear. I just wanted to state for the record that there is (at least for me) a speed difference between scalos and wanderer when used in the same setup.
But of difference Mounting USB folder/Poseidon/Trident
But the question remains: have you actually tested the difference in speed on the same hardware (native vs hosted) ?
magorium, what is your native language? maybe if I translate from Italian to your Language, we understand each other better :D
Unfortunately i only know the Italian words belissimo, mi amore and amiga (and some curse words i am not going to write here, i wanted to stay positive) :D
My native tongue is Dutch.
Please don't worry/bother, we eventually get there with using English. It wil just will take a few more posts than usual.
-
Native AROS is certainly by far the fastest of all, even if you only have the VESA Video Card, if you have a good Video Card and supported Sound Card the difference is even more tangible.
The Linux/Windows Hosted version of AROS is quite as fast as the VM, only the VM supports all the required Hardware except the Video Card, but as mentioned the VESA mode is great, a restriction only in 3D games.
Scalos is not slow, it just has graphical problems in my opinion, in fact you notice the slowness more with DualPNG Icons.
I never understood what the "native Dutch language" is, or always thought Dutch was a "Regional" language.
I manage and am a moderator of THIS (http://www.plagimusicali.net/forum/parliamo-di-cover/?PHPSESSID=qnskfvpc406mh80mtsvv7rcbdr) Music site (Covered/Plagiarism), and I have noticed that Dutch Artists over the various decades have used a lot of German ligua in their songs, but also Austrian and French.
-
Native AROS is certainly by far the fastest of all, even if you only have the VESA Video Card, if you have a good Video Card and supported Sound Card the difference is even more tangible.
I know :)
The Linux/Windows Hosted version of AROS is quite as fast as the VM, only the VM supports all the required Hardware except the Video Card, but as mentioned the VESA mode is great, a restriction only in 3D games.
I am also aware of that.
Although different people report different experiences with even so many different virtualization software. E.g. Virtualbox works perfect for me while qemu is slow as hell for me. Other people report the exact opposite or prefer to use vwmare as that work even better for them :)
Scalos is not slow, it just has graphical problems in my opinion, in fact you notice the slowness more with DualPNG Icons.
Especially the latter part is true. Note that original amiga hardware was/is never intended to use such graphical heavy type of icons. In that regards i can only put up a smile when i see someone posting that 32-bit dual png icons with abnormal size/dimensions are slow for them... Amiga WB is fast because of it's efficient use of its icon-type.
I never understood what the "native Dutch language" is, or always thought Dutch was a "Regional" language.
If it would be a regional language then there wouldn't be a whole country invented around it that uses that language as native mother tongue :)
I manage and am a moderator of THIS (http://www.plagimusicali.net/forum/parliamo-di-cover/?PHPSESSID=qnskfvpc406mh80mtsvv7rcbdr) Music site (Covered/Plagiarism), and I have noticed that Dutch Artists over the various decades have used a lot of German ligua in their songs, but also Austrian and French.
Unfortunately there is not a English (or Italian) page for the common mother language used in the past. It is called Diets (https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diets).
Furthermore the Netherlands (in most present pasts) was occupied by the Spanish, French and German's. Especially the German language and Dutch language seem to sound alike a lot for foreigners but they definitely differ (Most German and Dutch people are unable to communicate with each other because of the language differences but people from neighbouring cities usually have no issues with that because of their use of dialects). The Diets ancestor language has even more similarities with German. In the end it all stems from the Germanic languages (see wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_languages))
But to get back on topic: My setups do not seem to suffer from speeds differences with regards to native vs hosted. There probably is but it is not noticeable for me.
-
The 32Bit Icons on AROS but also on Amiga RTG (Emulated), are very fast, and represent the best Icons of all Operating systems both as quality and for the double image, on Linux, Windows the Icons are ugly, especially after the click.
In Italy, French and Spanish, have greatly influenced the dialects, particularly those of southern Italy where I live, in this part of Italy French and Spanish, have had dominance for many decades.
-
... and for the double image, on Linux, Windows the Icons are ugly, especially after the click.
Are you referring specifically to the default icon-set that is being used for AROS or are you referring to how scalos currently renders the images ?
In Italy, French and Spanish, have greatly influenced the dialects, particularly those of southern Italy where I live, in this part of Italy French and Spanish, have had dominance for many decades.
I honestly can't tell if there are any Spanish influences left in our language but for sure French is. We have a lot of French words (or descending from it) in our language and we only started to use last/family-names for commoners because the French demanded it around 1800's. That is why there are many last-names in our country that made/make no sense whatsoever, only to try and mock the French occupier back then. Before that we used Patronymic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patronymic_surname) names.
-
Are you referring specifically to the default icon-set that is being used for AROS or are you referring to how scalos currently renders the images ?
Mi riferisco alle icone native Windows e Linux, ma credo anche MAC, quando cliccate, invece della seconda immagine, mostrano solo la stessa immagine sbiadita.
I honestly can't tell if there are any Spanish influences left in our language but for sure French is. We have a lot of French words (or descending from it) in our language and we only started to use last/family-names for commoners because the French demanded it around 1800's. That is why there are many last-names in our country that made/make no sense whatsoever, only to try and mock the French occupier back then. Before that we used Patronymic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patronymic_surname) names.
Yes Names, but also Surnames were influenced by French and Spanish in Southern Italy, in Northern Italy on the other hand many Names and Surnames were influenced by Austrian and Slavic and French Language.
After World War II English or rather American also influenced Italian Names, even the Italian Vocabulary is now full of English words.
-
Mi riferisco alle icone native Windows e Linux, ma credo anche MAC, quando cliccate, invece della seconda immagine, mostrano solo la stessa immagine sbiadita.
Aaah, now i understood what you meant.
I was still thinking in the AROS/Amiga context while you were speaking of native linux/windows icons.
Yes, I full-heartedly agree: they are ugly :)
After World War II English or rather American also influenced Italian Names, even the Italian Vocabulary is now full of English words.
And here I was thinking it all was because of the darn internets .... ;)
But seriously the whole online crap has found it's way through our language in such a way that people try to use all fancy and flashy English buzz words to describe normal simple things that have a perfectly capable describing native counterpart. So simple things like for instance a dishwasher (as in someone washing the dishes) all of a sudden becomes an "professional industrial cleansing wizard". Especially job related activities and ads are using those kind of fancy descriptions (it literally sounds like raping your native language).
-
Regarding Linux, if you try to look at my DualPNG Icons, it sees them just fine, but only as normal images PNG, Windows instead sees them as images if you rename from .INFO to .PNG ;D
English or rather American influenced much before the arrival of the Internet, perhaps Television in the early 1960s was the first popularizer of English, see Advertisements, names of Detergents, Household Appliances, Street Signs, Advertising Signs, but also Songs, Movies, Fashion, in English gave a more professional touch.