AROS World Exec
General => General Chat => Topic started by: x-vision on January 22, 2021, 02:52:57 PM
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I don't know how to express this, so I will try to get straight to the point the best I can:
This is a call to people stating their love to Aros, because there is a real isue with its development. Right now the main devs working on the core development and future (updates and new features) of AROS are mainly just 2 developers: Kalamatee, and Mazze, with help from Mike R and others (sorry if some names don't come to mind right now), and of course not disrespecting at all the amazing work of deadwood and Michal Schulz, but the later are more focussed on different aspects (not exactly related to the core development): backporting to Abi 0 and 68K emulation for ARM.
The hardest part of the work comes from kalamatee, which also happens to be in a very real and sad dire straits, which prevents him sometimes to keep working on Aros because he cannot even pay his internet or other regular bills, let alone buy required hardware or other "luxurious" requirements for his daily life.
Right now he is working (and show public and real progress) in "details" like: updating 64bits to support all the contributed software, SMP, SDL and Mesa support till the point of bringing Vulkan to Aros, skinnable icons and themes and many more exciting features, with some of them so mature that are already working and at the bug testing stage. Not exactly small stuff, right?
So, if you really want to keep Aros alive, please put your money where your mouth is: he needs support. ANY amount helps a lot, and it's greatly appreciated (even 5, or 1 €/GBP/$). And it is as easy as a paypal or Github donation to : kalamatee@gmail.com
Thanks for your time and thanks a lot in advance for your support!
Oh: and if there is anyone interested in watching realtime progress on the fruits of his well spent money, you are welcome to join the Slack channel, where details and screenshots are daily shared.
(https://i.imgur.com/z5AW8QI.png)
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Hello
I will try to make some donations periodically, I cannot access slack because I use odyssey, update us if you can
Good weekend
salvatore
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I suppose I can share this,
All screenshots from aros Abi1 x86_64 bits native, running MESA 20.2
(https://i.imgur.com/ZO4aAt6.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/oPpzvJa.jpeg)
ScummVm 1.9, 2.20 is ported but still need to fix bugs
(https://i.imgur.com/cwMnpbd.jpeg)
Icon Alias: now Aros can use predefined default iconsets if a custom icon is not present
(https://i.imgur.com/7BqszXD.png)
Please donate to help making possible to keep working on it (no BS, it already happened in the past that he had to stop working for months because lack of money).
Or even better: contribute coding if you are developer. Just need to agree to this terms: This is for Aros Abi 1 64 bits. Going beyond what Workbench 3.1 offer, so having things like USB 3, Vulkan, 4k, ssd/NVMe etc... ARE TARGETS. Just because current users need them. If you agree to those conditions, you are more than welcome :)
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I'm not a developer, I can only contribute with donations :)
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I'm not a developer, I can only contribute with donations :)
I know salvo :), that was intended to anyone. Hope you liked the shots and can help at some point, cause this fork is the most important for Aros survival, and just with the cost of one of our supermarket buyings we can be part and proud to contribute to its survival
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I see :D
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(https://i.imgur.com/Zwekgli.png)
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do not see an image :(
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do not see an image :(
Similarly. No pictures from x-vision. Although I'm logged in forum.
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/42651330981/permalink/10159618813835982/ has all the screenshots
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/42651330981/permalink/10159618813835982/ has all the screenshots
Thank you
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Sorry. It seems slack does not allow to watch screenshots if you don't have an account.
Let's try this one. Do everybody see it?
(https://i.imgur.com/bu3Ujvx.png)
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Let's try this one. Do everybody see it?
No. Nobody sees it. And that's the way it should be.
This was discussed, for example, here (https://ae.amigalife.org/index.php?topic=626.msg5195#msg5195).
Also, for example, everyone sees it:
(https://i.postimg.cc/kGKNYpzR/avatar-serp-and-molot.jpg)
You posted a link to a file located on another server requiring authorization.
Moreover, in order to even break off with access, you also need to be authorized on this forum.
This requires double authorization to view.
I have uploaded the image to the server that does NOT require authorization to read the file from it.
If you do the same, everyone will see your images.
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Also much of Nick's work. :)
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Also much of Nick's work. :)
Thx Terminills. Wow, long time good memories: I designed my first profesional videogame with that program on my 1200 ;D :'(
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Blade Runner on Scumm VM 2.2.0 (sadly I can't post inserted videos)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfFTKW0pSDE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfFTKW0pSDE)
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Wow. More than 400 views and just 3 answers, one to critizice the OP and just 2 for some kind of support which 1 coming from someone who's already one of the best supporters. In a forum suposedly about supporters of aros. hahaha
I didn't expect much because I already know a bit who's still around, but: not even 1 word (Let alone making a contribution or whatever else)?
Amazing how the human mind can cheat yourself into making some twisted acts.
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Wow. More than 400 views and just 3 answers, one to critizice the OP and just 2 for some kind of support which 1 coming from someone who's already one of the best supporters. In a forum suposedly about supporters of aros. hahaha
I didn't expect much because I already know a bit who's still around, but: not even 1 word (Let alone making a contribution or whatever else)?
Amazing how the human mind can cheat yourself into making some twisted acts.
I have donated some money to Kalamatee
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I have donated to support developers and for buying new hardware including a new Nvme drive and newer memory for the servers that build AROS.
I've also given money to support Kalamatee. 😊
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Wow. More than 400 views and just 3 answers, one to critizice the OP and just 2 for some kind of support which 1 coming from someone who's already one of the best supporters. In a forum suposedly about supporters of aros. hahaha
I didn't expect much because I already know a bit who's still around, but: not even 1 word (Let alone making a contribution or whatever else)?
Amazing how the human mind can cheat yourself into making some twisted acts.
You have only begun to know the meaning of the twisted acts that AROS is subject to. The reason I've demoted myself from participant to lurker on AROS Exec is that the few team members that remain have very different goals and ways to achieve them than I do. Suffice it to say I have creative differences with most if not all of them.
First off, ABI v0 is full of placeholder code that should have been discarded long ago. Second, ABI v1 only supports AROS SMP on x64 but I'm not going to install it on the only x64 system I have that will run it because I need to use it for my everyday coding. Third, without SMP on a hobby architecture like AArch64, the means to start out newbie developers to become experienced developers on AROS is missing the boat. Finally, the means to getting cross platform binaries to work on third party OS development involves getting WebAssembly to work on the architecture so that new binaries will work on it out of the box.
On the plus side, there's Deadwood's fine Mesa port from years ago giving some measure of accelerated graphics. Other than that, AROS basically doesn't have much of a future. While my previous preferred languages for Amiga are equally ready for the trash as C, AROS is written in C. There's no hope of AmigaE support due to 32-bit dependencies of that language. There's no hope of AmiBlitz becuase it's strictly 68k as is AmosPro.
What would it take to have a future for any OS? Wasmer's WebAssembly support outside the browser depends on POSIX subset compliance that no Amiga-like can easily match. Wasmer is written in Rust whose advantage is tight SMP integration and easy multithreading without race conditions or memory leaks.
What can help in the future? Build hosted on a new kernel like RedoxOS written in Rust or Haiku, an OS written in C++ with SMP from the ground up support. Even Google Fuchsia is looking more hopeful than being hosted on Linux as it is binary compatible with some Linux code but doesn't use the huge kernel like Linux uses. There are many examples of operating systems that have more of a future than AROS at the moment. It's sad but true. AROS is behind the times so far it has no future.
Sorry to have to rain on your parade but I'll go back to lurking now. I like my Amigas but have no allusions that AROS other than 68k ABI v1 has any hope whatsoever becuase of the backing of the Vampire team and OlafS. It's just spread too thin and too far behind.
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@Samurai_Crow
I haven't heard from you in a long while.
It's true that AROS 32bit and 64bit have their own issues. Much of that may be management related.
I have a different view of AROS and especially IcarosDesktop. I certainly don't expect it to be any competition for any modern OS. It is merely a niche Amiga-like OS that I regard as a hobby.
Personally, I use virtual machines such as VirtualBox and VMWare. That way IcarosDesktop doesn't occupy the entire computer, only when I want it. I've learned much about C coding for AROS and Amiga over the last five years. Hopefully I improved my skllls a little. Now I'm bringing some of my C# code from Icon Editors and Image Viewers and Virtual Disk Managers over to AROS as well. I prefer Icon Programs and Graphics Apps.
But it's basically a hobby, a way to spend time and maybe eventually produce something someone might find useful. At the moment I'm working on a few such projects and some datatypes. But honestly, I really enjoy this crap!! 😊
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Here is an Icon App I'm working on currently.
I have some pleasant memories of the Amiga OS 3.9 IconEdit with it's yellow crayon box icon.
This is my version of the AROS IconEdit program which has a new yellow pencil box icon. We're older and wiser now so we have graduated from crayons to colored pencils. ;-)
Currently it has support for Legacy Glow Icons and I'm adding support for True Color Icons and Hybrid Icons with Argb Chunks.It supports Loading, Displaying, Assembling and saving these icon formats. It will also support drag-n-drop and it has a small menu system as well. I'm trying to keep it simple and traditional to make it compatible with AROS 32bit/ 64bit and 68k, as well as Amiga OS.
The two empty boxes to the right is where the image colormaps will be drawn. Just last night I finished the code for the pixelated image in the Preview Aea. Using the same technique I can now draw the colormaps maybe using Graphics Library though it's noticeably slow! Or it might be better to setup a bitmap and blit the bitmap to the rasterport instead. Maybe it will draw faster.
I hope someone will find it useful. I'm enjoying writing it. ; )
P.S. - X-Vision mentioned "Icon Alias" but it isn't finished yet. I have done some work with it in Icon Library and it is very promising. It uses an IconSet selected by the user. But instead of copying the icons over the current ones like we have traditionally done. Icon Alias and Icon Library do a Magic Trick. Icon Library reads the IconList and substitutes the name of the alternate icon and loads and displays the new one instead. It behaves like real icon - because it is a real icon! Turn off Icon Alias and the original icons display as usual. There is much work involved.
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Are DualPNG Icons Supported?
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Are DualPNG Icons Supported?
The program isn't finished yet but I'm writing the Dual-PNG Icon support code. As soon as I get the user interface to a comfortable spot which will be soon, and after I add code for a few more menu items then I will focus on Argb Icon Support.
I started a function to read and display the Argb Data from a Hybrid Icon that was put together by ILBM2ICON but I didn't finish that part. Once the Dual PNG Images are separated in memory getting the pixel data isn't difficult at that point the PNG Icon and the ARGB Data Chunk behave the same and get displayed the same way. It will also be possible to load a Hybrid Icon and selectively save the Glow Icon or the PNG Icon parts.
So, yes. It will be supported. Long answer to a short question. :)
I didn't mean to distract from the main thread. I just wanted to show that things are still happening as far as apps for AROS. But the main contributors/developers are a valuable commodity. We should support their efforts as much as possible. :)
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I move this my answer here. This is imho, it's not for polemics (discussion would be normal, but hardly possible).
I'm sure there are many people out there who are passionate about modern technology. At the same time, modern technology is like a snowball rolling down a mountain. For me, modern technology is a continuous regression and self-repetition.
I'm sure that AROS doesn't need Linux, but unfortunately in the existing world it is impossible to refuse it.
I don't make any decisions in this matter, I just express my IMHO.
In fact, both android and chrome are stunningly silly nonsense and examples of wasted resources with disgusting user experience.
I know how to use all this and more or less know how it works inside.
In the Russian Amiga community (when it was larger and more active) many years ago it was compared to Baron Münchhausen pulling himself out of a swamp by his hair. Years have passed, but this remains true and goes further along the path of destroying the meaning of working with the operating system.
When you have a computer that has a BIOS that needs to load a bootloader that needs to load real loader.. Hey! Aren't you tired of loading?
Ok, then we have a computer for you with a BIOS that loads a bootloader, which starts the Linux kernel, which loads init, which loads Zygote, which loads a machine for special code (Dalvik), which loads a special code, which loads an interface and many, many api, plus a virtual machine for other special code that is needed for interpretation a basic-like language that renders the desktop in the browser, written in other special code. And all this lies in the palm of your hand and becomes the standard.
In fact, this is all clinical idiocy. The apotheosis of idiocy is the desktop in the browser (https://www.taws.ch/WB.html). For Sinclair ZX Spectrum in TR-DOS was a program that loaded other programs. It was called boot.B (https://zxart.ee/rus/soft/tool/boot/unknown-boot/unknown-boot/) and was 1 block (256 bytes) in size of a floppy disk!The operating system looks like gigabytes of loadable code and should not turn into a boot. This destroys its meaning as an operating system and is (I repeat) - idiocy.
The architecture of AmigaOS is outdated and lacks some of the really important features that emerged in the evolution of operating systems. However, AROS follows it from the very beginning, and this would give a certain ghostly chance for a separate evolution of the system, if the past of AmigaOS were not proprietary.. For the same reason, like AmigaOS doesn't have a proprietary future (although everyone wants to eat) :( Today it is almost impossible to taboo such things as mixing a snake with a hedgehog, in other words: like AmigaOS with *nix. This doesn't mean that you need to turn AROS into a Shell/VM on top of Linux/Windows/etc. AROS is not a KDE, Gnome, or Android, it's an OPERATING SYSTEM! Ideally, AROS should pull out "his Munchausen" himself.
Thus using Linux or Windows is a means, but not a target. In the recent past there was an Amiga that emulated everything. The ideal AROS would be suitable for replacing Linux where Linux is currently used, including on any processor and other hardware. It's a worthy and ambitious target for which there are no any resources. Hence the parasitism on the Linux ecosystem. :)
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... Icon Alias and Icon Library do a Magic Trick. ...
Out of interest, basically you patch iconlibrary functions to point them at your functions when aliasing is active (and call default original functions when not) and then instead of loading the actual diskobject, you replace that with the 'aliased' icon ?
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... Icon Alias and Icon Library do a Magic Trick. ...
Out of interest, basically you patch iconlibrary functions to point them at your functions when aliasing is active (and call default original functions when not) and then instead of loading the actual diskobject, you replace that with the 'aliased' icon ?
I'm not sure this thread is the right place to address that so I'll start another one and answer your question.
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Wow. More than 400 views and just 3 answers, one to critizice the OP and just 2 for some kind of support which 1 coming from someone who's already one of the best supporters. In a forum suposedly about supporters of aros. hahaha
I didn't expect much because I already know a bit who's still around, but: not even 1 word (Let alone making a contribution or whatever else)?
Amazing how the human mind can cheat yourself into making some twisted acts.
You have only begun to know the meaning of the twisted acts that AROS is subject to. The reason I've demoted myself from participant to lurker on AROS Exec is that the few team members that remain have very different goals and ways to achieve them than I do. Suffice it to say I have creative differences with most if not all of them.
First off, ABI v0 is full of placeholder code that should have been discarded long ago. Second, ABI v1 only supports AROS SMP on x64 but I'm not going to install it on the only x64 system I have that will run it because I need to use it for my everyday coding. Third, without SMP on a hobby architecture like AArch64, the means to start out newbie developers to become experienced developers on AROS is missing the boat. Finally, the means to getting cross platform binaries to work on third party OS development involves getting WebAssembly to work on the architecture so that new binaries will work on it out of the box.
It's fine that "YOU'RE" not going to install AROS64 however people like me have no problems whatsoever having a separate machine for AROS64.
On the plus side, there's Deadwood's fine Mesa port from years ago giving some measure of accelerated graphics. Other than that, AROS basically doesn't have much of a future. While my previous preferred languages for Amiga are equally ready for the trash as C, AROS is written in C. There's no hope of AmigaE support due to 32-bit dependencies of that language. There's no hope of AmiBlitz becuase it's strictly 68k as is AmosPro.
deadwoods MESA port is over 12 versions behind ABIv1's version of MESA.
What would it take to have a future for any OS? Wasmer's WebAssembly support outside the browser depends on POSIX subset compliance that no Amiga-like can easily match. Wasmer is written in Rust whose advantage is tight SMP integration and easy multithreading without race conditions or memory leaks.
What can help in the future? Build hosted on a new kernel like RedoxOS written in Rust or Haiku, an OS written in C++ with SMP from the ground up support. Even Google Fuchsia is looking more hopeful than being hosted on Linux as it is binary compatible with some Linux code but doesn't use the huge kernel like Linux uses. There are many examples of operating systems that have more of a future than AROS at the moment. It's sad but true. AROS is behind the times so far it has no future.
What does the future hold quite simply developers who enjoy working on AROS and whatever users wanting to use it using it nothing more nothing less.
Sorry to have to rain on your parade but I'll go back to lurking now. I like my Amigas but have no allusions that AROS other than 68k ABI v1 has any hope whatsoever becuase of the backing of the Vampire team and OlafS. It's just spread too thin and too far behind.
AROS 68K has less happening to it than AROS 64 currently it all depends on what the active developers are interested in.
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@terminills
"AROS 68K has less happening to it than AROS 64 currently it all depends on what the active developers are interested in."
That last statement is very true. Not that the rest of what you say isn't. It's all good. :)
But developers are people too with personal lives and even families. Many of these AROS projects require much effort over months or years. Sometimes it's not the complexity of the work but the tenacity of the programmer. The worst thing other than failure due to major hurdles is to lose interest. So it makes sense to choose projects that are of personal interest.
I really enjoy working with icons and graphics! I can spend hours at a time "playing with pixels". Ask my wife. 8)
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miker do you like to work with graphics, you could work on luna paint and add some photo editing elements, we have nothing of the gene on aros :)
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salvo
Is LunaPaint in Contribs ?
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salvo
Is LunaPaint in Contribs ?
yes
trunk/contrib/gfx/lunapaint/mmakefile.src
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miker do you like to work with graphics, you could work on luna paint and add some photo editing elements, we have nothing of the gene on aros :)
Is there something wrong with yannick's Zunepaint ?
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I like ZunePaint and ZuneView. I think they are quite well written.
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ZunePaint and ZuneView are excellent programs
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(...) Sometimes it's not the complexity of the work but the tenacity of the programmer. The worst thing other than failure due to major hurdles is to lose interest. So it makes sense to choose projects that are of personal interest.
+1
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@terminills
"AROS 68K has less happening to it than AROS 64 currently it all depends on what the active developers are interested in."
That last statement is very true. Not that the rest of what you say isn't. It's all good. :)
But developers are people too with personal lives and even families. Many of these AROS projects require much effort over months or years. Sometimes it's not the complexity of the work but the tenacity of the programmer. The worst thing other than failure due to major hurdles is to lose interest. So it makes sense to choose projects that are of personal interest.
I really enjoy working with icons and graphics! I can spend hours at a time "playing with pixels". Ask my wife. 8)
Of course, it does... But it certainly doesn't help them stay interested when you have a big long post about how because something isn't done the way one specific person thinks it should be done it's a dead end. Ironically some developers are actually human and take offense to it. :)
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miker lunapaint supports layers and animations can be created, text support is missing to be more complete and then something for retouching that doesn't exist in any program, like for example if I want to remove something from an image without compromising it completely and yes the effects :)
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Of course, it does... But it certainly doesn't help them stay interested when you have a big long post about how because something isn't done the way one specific person thinks it should be done it's a dead end. Ironically some developers are actually human and take offense to it. :)
With kicks, we'll make people happy. ;D
Sometimes it's nice to have a sense of humor:
(https://i.postimg.cc/jjH3Bm9Y/2273-1-snap.png)
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Hey, you guys! Don't try to rain on my parade! ;D
Some guys get older. Things happen and they get grumpy. It's not the fault of AROS or even Microsoft, but I do blame a lot on the latter. LOL.
Whether it's a lack of caffeine or a lack of hormones when guys get to their man-opause old guys get grumpy! They are like the old geezers sitting on the front porch with a frown throwing rocks at kids because they are laughing and playing too loudly. (I tried to add humor).
But today is a beautiful day for AROS and C programming. Last night I made great progress towards a lofty goal (it was big for me at least). It relates to "HSL Hue Rotation". My RGB2HSL. algorithms are working! Soon I might be able to Color Shift ILBM Icon Images then save the icon to file! That's huge news!
AROS is awesome. It's the people that I have problems with. ;D
Don't mind me. I'm having my own little party here! 8) 8) 8)
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Hey, you guys! Don't try to rain on my parade! ;D
Some guys get older. Things happen and they get grumpy. It's not the fault of AROS or even Microsoft, but I do blame a lot on the latter. LOL.
Whether it's a lack of caffeine or a lack of hormones when guys get to their man-opause old guys get grumpy! They are like the old geezers sitting on the front porch with a frown throwing rocks at kids because they are laughing and playing too loudly. (I tried to add humor).
But today is a beautiful day for AROS and C programming. Last night I made great progress towards a lofty goal (it was big for me at least). It relates to "HSL Hue Rotation". My RGB2HSL. algorithms are working! Soon I might be able to Color Shift ILBM Icon Images then save the icon to file! That's huge news!
AROS is awesome. It's the people that I have problems with. ;D
Don't mind me. I'm having my own little party here! 8) 8) 8)
Well, you know. Everyone has his way to heal from grumpy-ness. When I start feeling a little bored or tired with a project, I just start another one.
Look at this
http://www.zzapmagazine.it
This does not mean I am over with Icaros but, simply, that I have something that will keep me busy for a while and, once recharged, I will be back on Icaros for another update.
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@paolone
How interesting! It has been many moons since I visited Rimini Beach and Venezia and my Italian is a little rusty but I will enjoy reading the pdf...in Italian. :)
So for those Italian speakers who like to write nasty notes in Italian expecting that we English-speakers, or French, or German, have no clue what you are talking about...be advised. I'm watching you! You know who you are! Salvatore. LOL. 😛
BTW when I get bored with AROS (sometimes it happens) then I go back to fixing up my C# graphics programs, or I read a book.
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Wow. More than 400 views and just 3 answers, one to critizice the OP and just 2 for some kind of support which 1 coming from someone who's already one of the best supporters. In a forum suposedly about supporters of aros. hahaha
I didn't expect much because I already know a bit who's still around, but: not even 1 word (Let alone making a contribution or whatever else)?
Amazing how the human mind can cheat yourself into making some twisted acts.
You have only begun to know the meaning of the twisted acts that AROS is subject to. The reason I've demoted myself from participant to lurker on AROS Exec is that the few team members that remain have very different goals and ways to achieve them than I do. Suffice it to say I have creative differences with most if not all of them.
First off, ABI v0 is full of placeholder code that should have been discarded long ago. Second, ABI v1 only supports AROS SMP on x64 but I'm not going to install it on the only x64 system I have that will run it because I need to use it for my everyday coding. Third, without SMP on a hobby architecture like AArch64, the means to start out newbie developers to become experienced developers on AROS is missing the boat. Finally, the means to getting cross platform binaries to work on third party OS development involves getting WebAssembly to work on the architecture so that new binaries will work on it out of the box.
On the plus side, there's Deadwood's fine Mesa port from years ago giving some measure of accelerated graphics. Other than that, AROS basically doesn't have much of a future. While my previous preferred languages for Amiga are equally ready for the trash as C, AROS is written in C. There's no hope of AmigaE support due to 32-bit dependencies of that language. There's no hope of AmiBlitz becuase it's strictly 68k as is AmosPro.
What would it take to have a future for any OS? Wasmer's WebAssembly support outside the browser depends on POSIX subset compliance that no Amiga-like can easily match. Wasmer is written in Rust whose advantage is tight SMP integration and easy multithreading without race conditions or memory leaks.
What can help in the future? Build hosted on a new kernel like RedoxOS written in Rust or Haiku, an OS written in C++ with SMP from the ground up support. Even Google Fuchsia is looking more hopeful than being hosted on Linux as it is binary compatible with some Linux code but doesn't use the huge kernel like Linux uses. There are many examples of operating systems that have more of a future than AROS at the moment. It's sad but true. AROS is behind the times so far it has no future.
Sorry to have to rain on your parade but I'll go back to lurking now. I like my Amigas but have no allusions that AROS other than 68k ABI v1 has any hope whatsoever becuase of the backing of the Vampire team and OlafS. It's just spread too thin and too far behind.
Everybody has his own oppinions. Good for you. Just some appreciations:
- Deadwood didn't port Mesa, Kalamatee did.
- You can install Aros64 in a virtualbox, don't need to mess with you main OS or boot config
- There are many good OSs out there, better than Aros and better than windows, but they lack history, charisma and loyal userbase (well, kind of). We don't need that Aros become the best OS in the world, just that it can be used on modern hardware with some ease and devices support, and if it allows to run Windows or Limux apps transparently, then it can become my main (and probably only) OS. It won't have support for many specialized and/or advanced features (networks, servers, industrial or technologic environments, etc...) but i don't need them anyway.
- All those subjects can't distract the fact that is sad, silly and selfish to not support (even with mere crumbs) the ones doing the real work that you all have been enjoying for years. Shame on you all.
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- Deadwood didn't port Mesa, Kalamatee did.
You are sure about that?
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:D